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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
6387 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  13:11:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you subscribe to HULU streaming service, they just added a one hour program/movie titled Island Earth. It's about all aspects of agriculture in the islands, including seed corn production on Kauai, Rainbow papaya on Big Island, and what current methods do to the aina. Interviews with residents, scientists, doctors and others.

Interesting commentary about tobacco companies and chemical companies trying to buy off scientists, or discredit them in order to keep selling harmful products. The comparison can be made on the micro level with present day seed companies spraying undisclosed chemical applications next to Kapaa schools, or on the macro level, climate change across our planet.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787

Edited by - HereOnThePrimalEdge on 01/17/2018 12:07:51

rainyjim
Punatic

1968 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2017 :  21:42:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The documentary was made by a surfer from California and as with most documentaries this film focuses more on its own agenda than science.

Impressive cinematography dramatizes a cultural significance as an underlying tenant of ethical imperatives in Hawaii.

The film (un)surprisingly fails to interview or approach the seed companies for relevant information while fielding many spurious claims from individuals with no professional backgrounds related to the opinions they espouse.

All RUP sprayed in Hawaii are reported and known and can be found here: https://data.hawaii.gov/Health/Hawaii-Agricultural-Good-Neighbor-Program-RUP-Use-/9pud-c8q5

In short this film is bent on demonizing GMO's as a valid technology in agriculture favoring instead 'organic' agricultural methods which you may or may not have recently heard can feed the world ...IF... everyone becomes a vegetarian and global food waste declines by 50%. (lol)

See link below RE: organic farming feeding the world.

https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/organic-farming-can-feed-world--until-you-read-small-print
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TomK
Punatic

USA
7263 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  00:22:46  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any chance of providing a link to the documentary other than via Hulu?
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Obie
Punatic

USA
3184 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  06:40:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can see the trailer here:

https://islandearthfilm.com/

No need to watch the whole movie.
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knieft
Kamaaina

771 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  08:55:20  Show Profile  Visit knieft's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It seems unfortunate to me that the issue of more sustainable and local food production in Hawaii has been hijacked by GMO scare mongers. The two issues are not at all the same.

Cheers,
Kirt
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Kapoho Joe
Punatic

USA
1934 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  09:03:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would be more open to accepting GMO if nasty corporations like Monsanto were not the main proponents of this tech. It's like getting a lecture on clean water from Nestle...
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
6387 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  09:47:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for posting the link Obie.

The documentary received a 7.4 rating on IMDb (out of 10), which is a relatively high rating. I thought the score was well deserved.

The filmmakers made a reasonable attempt to portray the grey areas in the GMO debate. They interviewed the developer of the GMO Rainbow and Sunrise papaya varieties in a positive light, and stated that a large scale papaya industry would probably not exist in Hawaii if not for those varieties. The documentary went on to contrast that type of GMO use with what Monsanto does, inserting a roundup resistant gene into corn, which results in massive toxic spraying of the crop on Kauai.

Corn produces three crops a year in the islands versus one on the mainland, so land and neighboring residents in Hawaii are subjected to a minimum of triple the exposure received by residents in Iowa or California. Monsanto's fields also have three different purposes, hybrid production, testing new varieties, then the final seed production destined for sales to commercial farmers.

The most dangerous aspect is the testing phase. If they run LD-50* trials to determine the maximum level of pesticide exposure a new corn variety can survive, it's probable that extremely high doses are used when those tests are conducted. Since they won't reveal what and how much they spray, I'd say that makes it likely to be the case.

* LD-50 or lethal dose 50, the level at which 50% of the subject crop will die after exposure


The film (un)surprisingly fails to interview or approach the seed companies for relevant information

As was pointed out in the film, seed company officials will not talk to neighboring schools, the DOE, or state and county officials. It shouldn't be surprising they wouldn't speak with the filmmakers either.

I made my income from farming for a number of years, and was surprised to learn a thing or two from the film. I'm glad I watched it in it's entirety.

Edited to add: The documentary showed quite a large number of fields used in food production, both commercial and organic. I watched those segments carefully, especially when the organic fields and gardens appeared. I can confidently report that no rats were seen in either organic or commercial locations. Coincidence? Or definite proof of succussful rodent control under various and multiple conditions?

Edited by - HereOnThePrimalEdge on 12/16/2017 10:35:03
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Kapoho Joe
Punatic

USA
1934 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  10:10:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great review HOTPE! Glad to hear a distinction being drawn between Monsantos 'Spray and Pray' policy of seeing how much poison they can cram into each crop and some simple tweaks in the lab.

Again, if the GMO people want more support for their science, they need to ditch Monsatan.
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leilanidude
Punatic

USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  10:21:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
with what Monsanto does, inserting a roundup resistant gene into corn, which results in massive toxic spraying of the crop on Kauai.
--------------
No. Just because the corn is Roundup Ready does not mean that is sprayed with anything. All it means is that the plant is resistant to Roundup.
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
6387 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  10:42:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No. All it means is that the plant is resistant to Roundup.

Wrong again. Their Hawaii fields are used to test new varieties. The only way Monsanto can know with certainty whether a newly developed variety is resistant to Roundup, is if they conduct LD-50 trials on the new plants.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
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leilanidude
Punatic

USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  10:54:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are assuming that it is sprayed. It may not always be the case.
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
6387 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  10:58:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are assuming that it is sprayed. It may not always be the case.

Roundup is always sprayed, 100% of the time. It must be applied to the leaves of the plant to be eradicated, otherwise it won't work.

Watch the movie.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
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Obie
Punatic

USA
3184 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  11:46:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is an opinion article on this subject :

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2017/07/24/opinion-anti-gmo-documentaries-hawaii-farming-warp-reality/

The facts are that they are not spraying tons of chemicals on Hawaii.
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leilanidude
Punatic

USA
3159 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  12:22:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

You are assuming that it is sprayed. It may not always be the case.

Roundup is always sprayed, 100% of the time. It must be applied to the leaves of the plant to be eradicated, otherwise it won't work.

Watch the movie.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787



Of course it is sprayed - its a liquid! It isn't always USED though. You completely missed the point.

Roundup Ready means the plant (corn, soybeans, etc.) can handle some Roundup on it. It doesn't mean that you drench the plant in it! It is used in three main ways. It can be sprayed on the fallow (empty) field just before planting, sprayed at the time of planting, or as the new plant is just coming up. The residual on Roundup is a couple of weeks.
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Kapoho Joe
Punatic

USA
1934 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  12:28:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, you sound just like an industry shill there L-Dude. Last I heard, glycophosphates were on the way out.

More than 285 lawsuits are pending against Monsanto Co. in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, filed by people alleging that exposure to Roundup herbicide caused them or their loved ones to develop non-Hodgkin lymphoma, and that Monsanto covered up the risks. The cases have been combined for handling as multidistrict litigation under Judge Vince Chhabria. The lead case is 3:16-md-02741-VC. Additionally, thousands of other plaintiffs have made similar claims against Monsanto in state courts. Plaintiffs’ attorneys estimate the total number of plaintiffs at approximately 3,500. The first trial in the Roundup litigation is set for June 18, 2018 in the Superior Court for the County of San Francisco.

https://www.facingsouth.org/2017/05/lawsuit-targets-potential-cancer-threat-souths-farming-communities

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/business/monsanto-roundup-safety-lawsuit.html

https://www.classaction.com/roundup-weed-killer/lawsuit/

https://usrtk.org/pesticides/mdl-monsanto-glyphosate-cancer-case-key-documents-analysis/



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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
6387 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2017 :  13:12:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The four large seed companies operating in the islands do not make public the details of their operations, the types of pesticides sprayed, the quantity, frequency or schedule of their applications.

So you can trust what little information they've disseminated, or look to a real world example of a similar situation. In the 1990's, DuPont manufactured a fungicide called Benelate. Inexplicably it started stunting or killing every plant it was applied to. It affected every orchid farm in Puna. DuPont told local growers they had run complete tests that proved Benelate was not the cause of the problem. They claimed growers exaggerated or imagined their nursery plants were dying.

DuPont paid out billions of dollars in claims, requiring a non disclosure agreement from growers and a promise to never sue again.
Ten years later it was discovered DuPont lied, in court papers. The had conducted secret testing in Costa Rica proving definitively Benelate caused the catastrophe. Ask any orchid grower in Puna who was in business during the 1990's. Not just any orchid grower, every orchid grower.

You can believe Monsanto, Syngenta, etc if you want to. But what exactly do you believe? What information have they released?

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787
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