Punatalk
Punatalk
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | Donate
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Punaweb Forums
 Punatalk
 Why are telescopes built?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page

Please note: All postings, business listings and advertisements are made available here, without charge, as a public service by Punaweb. No recommendations or endorsements of any specific posting, business listing or advertisement are made or implied by Punaweb.

Author Topic
Page: of 6

EightFingers
Punatic

USA
2619 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  10:59:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well.....sounds like a good question.
So why ARE they built?
It seems to me a telescope is not really a business thatís supposed to generate a profit, or maybe is it?
Are they mostly taxpayer funded projects used solely for the pure joy of discovery?
Are some of them privately funded? Is TMT privately funded? Whoís funding that one and why? What do they get out of it?
Are they used to research things that may benefit man either now or in the future? I think most people would answer yes to that?
How does someone go about justifying the funding for these huge projects?

Iím asking, not to look for negativity, but more for the why.
I donít know if maybe I missed some answers to the above in the many thousands of words posted here on Punaweb, or if maybe the questions were never really answered, and that is why Iím posting this.


Puna: Our roosters crow first

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8305 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  11:08:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why are telescopes built?

Space.
The final frontier...
Go to Top of Page

randomq
Punatic

USA
1762 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  12:55:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To understand what's around us, test our scientific theories of how the universe and physics work and maybe gain new insights, see if there is other life out there we could learn from, find new homes for humanity when ours becomes overcrowded, spot dangerous space objects far enough in advance to save lives on Earth, take really beautiful pictures that make people think of things bigger then their day to day problems and politics...
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

12429 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  13:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One reason given: to discover more potentially habitable planets to which we might emigrate.

However, if that were actually true, telescopes would be built on the moon.
Go to Top of Page

glassnumbers
Da Kine

USA
403 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  13:17:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think a more relevant question is, what benefit is there to having ANOTHER telescope up there, and what is the environmental impact, if any, of having multiple telescopes up there? I remember reading about a telescope up there that was long ago put out of service, but they couldn't remove it due to an accumulation of hydraulic fluid that had to be dealt with first. Was that a fluke/failure of an older design, something that would not be repeated with newer, more modern telescopes?

Aloha :)
Go to Top of Page

randomq
Punatic

USA
1762 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  13:29:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Technology progresses, and the new telescope will give us much more information than the 3-5 old ones that will be removed. In particular, we should be able to gather more information on exoplanets and their atmospheres, which may help us find life or planets capable of sustaining it. The new telescope is designed like a double-hulled ship, with sensors to alert when there is even potential for a spill. I can't speak to the old telescope leaking, aside from the fact they are going through a lot of technical and legal steps to ensure it is handled appropriately.
Go to Top of Page

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8305 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  13:33:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what benefit is there to having ANOTHER telescope up there

It's kind of like if you owned a '96 Nissan that gets 12 miles to the gallon, leaks a little oil, and has a cassette player built in the dash but still gets you to the Minute Stop. You check your budget and you're in a position to buy a 2019 electric-hybrid Volvo with airbags and the latest safety features. The Volvo is a safer car, better for you and the environment.

Newer technology telescopes can view things that the older observatories can't.
Go to Top of Page

MattKarma
Da Kine

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  13:59:21  Show Profile  Visit MattKarma's Homepage  Reply with Quote


...Galactic porn. We should be focusing on activities that have real benefits, like asteroid mining, defense. The whole thing could be paying for itself in decades, and it would bootstrap a real presence in space.

***Still can't figure out how to spell 'car' correctly***
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

12429 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  14:02:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We should be focusing on activities that have real benefits

Like getting off this planet.

The whole thing could be paying for itself in decades

It's not clear that we have enough decades.
Go to Top of Page

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8305 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  14:18:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We should be focusing on activities that have real benefits, like asteroid mining, defense.

We are.
I have a friend whoís an attorney. His brother is also an attorney who works at a law firm focused on space mining, claims, legal rights etc. The private space launch companies and mining probe manufacturers are working on the logistics as we speak. My friend gives me updates from time to time, and generally Iím shocked at how far along they are.

In general, space mining is mostly private sector.
Telescopes are more public sector, funded by universities, donations and grants from philanthropists. The two types of space exploration are progressing separately but concurrently.

Foe defense, the existing telescopes on Haleakala & Mauna Kea (and others around the world) operate an early warning asteroid identification program. NASA has prototype asteroid deflection probes in the works. The US Air Force has The X-37B and Space Force, but donít get me started on the latter.
Go to Top of Page

MattKarma
Da Kine

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  14:18:46  Show Profile  Visit MattKarma's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa

We should be focusing on activities that have real benefits

Like getting off this planet.

The whole thing could be paying for itself in decades

It's not clear that we have enough decades.




Like making the earth paradise, universal wealth ... just have to program the space ai so it doesn't go on strike. We'll hire the 'protectors' for that ;-)

***Still can't figure out how to spell 'car' correctly***
Go to Top of Page

TomK
Punatic

USA
8505 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  17:36:02  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
8F,

"So why ARE they built?"

To explore and understand our universe as well as our place within it.

"It seems to me a telescope is not really a business thatís supposed to generate a profit, or maybe is it?"

All major observatories are non-profit organizations. By law, they do not make profits nor were they built to do so.


"Are they mostly taxpayer funded projects used solely for the pure joy of discovery?"

Most observatories are funded by various government agencies and universities around the world so yes, they are funded by taxpayers. Some are privately funded, or at least a major part of their funding is private. The Keck Observatory on Mauna Kea is an example of the latter.

I'm not sure "joy of discovery" is the right phrase. They are built because of humankind's fundamental desire to explore and understand their surroundings. As an astronomer, I can say there is a joy in discovering something no-one else has seen before, but the main part of the job is to understand how the universe works and to test our theories of physics and chemistry. Even astrobiology is now becoming in important topic.

"Are some of them privately funded? Is TMT privately funded? Whoís funding that one and why? What do they get out of it?"

As I mentioned above, the Keck Observatory receives much of its money from a private foundation. The TMT is not privately funded, it's construction and operational costs are paid for by several governments agencies around the world. That funding allows the scientists of those countries to get observing time on the TMT when it's finally built.

"Are they used to research things that may benefit man either now or in the future? I think most people would answer yes to that?"

Both. Examples of things that benefit us now are obviously looking for Earth-threatening asteroids, predicting the effects of solar storms on our planet, tracking orbital debris and keeping commercial satellites safe and attracting people into STEM education (astronomy is often quoted by engineers and scientists as the thing that got them interested in science.

Long term benefits are all the technology advancements that naturally result from the research that gets done which also includes medicine for example. Ever had a CAT scan? You can thank astronomy for that. Do you use GPS? Again, a result of astronomy. There are numerous examples. Then, of course, there is the eventual need for humans to escape this planet.

"How does someone go about justifying the funding for these huge projects?"

See above. But I will point out that the amount of money spent on astronomy is minute when you think of the big picture and what your tax money is used for. For example, the cost of the TMT is still less than the average cost of one B2 bomber.
Go to Top of Page

reni
Kamaaina

694 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  18:35:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"I remember reading about a telescope up there that was long ago put out of service, but they couldn't remove it due to an accumulation of hydraulic fluid that had to be dealt with first."
-----------------------------------
Yes, glassnumbers, this is the reason claimed.
And the leaking hydraulic fluid , if it exists, would be found under the foundation. So we now wait on an EIS not allowing the dismantling down to the foundation? ...for how long?

Keep in mind, the powers that control remedying this solution are very similar to what we are currently up against with keeping our harbors open and affordable to those that love the ocean .

" Even if the Petitions are to be heard success is dim as BLNR controls all elements of the case hearing process. Study TMTís contested case history for a reference."

The State is in complete control of all aspects. It can move forward, it can stall.

I, fully support the exploration of space, the existing work on Mauna Kea . I have friends who are astronomers, awesome people who I admire and respect and I fully support the U. of H.
Can I not at the same time understand the Hawaiian culture? What is important to them? Not want to see them denied access to their Mauna?Be an environmentalist? And be sick and tired of this State's natural resources being sold to big business? Where's the balance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwRnQQn6m2E
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

12429 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  19:20:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not want to see them denied access to their Mauna?

I didn't realize TMT would take up the entire mountain.

sick and tired of this State's natural resources being sold to big business?

Leased. To a non-profit research facility.

Not saying the issues aren't valid, but the telescope focus is misguided.
Go to Top of Page

dan d
Punatic

USA
1059 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  19:38:22  Show Profile  Visit dan d's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wow hotp thanks


Why are telescopes built?

Space.
The final frontier...quote fm hotpe
--------------------


Wow this is a great place to ad some humor. Was watching star trek on net flix and seeing the origional star trek
Season 3 eppisode 20.

In regards to the mauna signil, the delta or pyramid symbol.

The protesters m8ght want to be carefull.( might be a star trek trade mark?)
In the time mark
2:33 min
The first time time da crazy hippe spaceship stealers are caught and call Kirk, herbert?
Ie: tmt.
The hippies( protecters) hold fast and stop Kirk (tmt)from deploying, he yeilds(kim).

4:46 the protesters(hippies) sign the delta sign and chant "sno cone sno cone snow cone,snow cone". Should it not have been, ice shave, ice shave,?

6:04
Spok steps in. Make the sign of the doughnut(smashed) sorry delta
The hippies ( protesters) say spok are u da one, yess. Da sign.
Spok becomes a non herbert. Like a clensing, hmm ,spok, kim, igeman.
Reborn,

Opps astronomy like we. New it ,gone like a bad episode.
The reruns later this year of the tmt. Show should be interesting lol
Aloha


HPP

Edited by - dan d on 08/11/2019 19:41:11
Go to Top of Page

rainyjim
Punatic

2079 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  20:28:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Dan, is English not your first language? I can barely understand anything you post on punaweb. I donít want this to be insulting - I just thought you should know in the event you might be able to format or structure your posts differently so others can Ďget more out of themí.
Alohas
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 6 Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Punatalk © 2003 to 2014 Punaweb Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06