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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  08:47:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

Is the Northern sky more important than the Southern sky?

Can you divide the study of a (more or less) infinite universe in half?



What is the argument - But, if TMT is built in Chile they will not be able to see the Northern sky all about.??

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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  08:52:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
if TMT is built in Chile they will not be able to see the Northern sky all about.??

The southern hemisphere faces a different part of the sky than the northern hemisphere. Take the constellation Southern Cross for instance. It’s barely on the horizon line in Hawaii, not visible at all on the mainland, but easily seen in Chile.

The reverse is true as well. We can see objects in space from Hawaii that cannot be seen in Chile.
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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:03:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...So, other than elevation and cleanest air in the world there are no advantages (viewing space) by building TMT on Maunakea?

eta - by

Edited by - Frank on 08/14/2019 09:04:33
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:07:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
other than elevation and cleanest air in the world

Those aren't good enough reasons?

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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:14:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, good reasons both but not game changers...MONEY, now that IS the game changer
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:23:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MONEY, now that IS the game changer

A premium location demands a premium price, then? TMT isn't offering enough?

Let's make Hawaii so expensive that we don't get tourists or investment, then we'll be forced to raise taxes high enough that most residents move away too.
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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:32:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't say or imply your leap at all...TMT does not an economy make...tourists won't come to the Big Isle because TMT wasn't built?
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:41:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MONEY, now that IS the game changer

Maybe Frank has a point. But why stop at taxing the non-profit telescopes? Let's tax the University of Hawaii too, and UHH. But wait there's more. Let's tax OHA & DHHL. People who have Section 8 and EBT get free food and housing - - tax them a little too. Retired people get free social security money and Medicare every month just for sitting at home and watching TV, tax them double. I could go on and on, but one more. People who get their own stop light & barricades, a free camp site and parking place really should pay a hefty tax in my opinion.

Add it all up and there's some serious game changing cash we can give to Harry Kim, who, oh yeah, should have his own special tax applied to his salary. All of it.
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  09:45:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TMT does not an economy make...

TMT contributes both money and diversity to the economy.

Diversity is important. Especially in a smaller economy which already suffers a "major geographic disadvantage".

tourists won't come to the Big Isle because TMT wasn't built?

Tourists who came here to see the telescopes are unable to do so. This is a real thing that is currently happening. They will be sharing their opinions when they go back where they came from.

Continuing to allow the protest blockade sends a clear message: it's foolish to invest In Hawaii, permits are worthless paper. This could become a problem.
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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:08:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

MONEY, now that IS the game changer

Maybe Frank has a point. But why stop at taxing the non-profit telescopes? Let's tax the University of Hawaii too, and UHH. But wait there's more. Let's tax OHA & DHHL. People who have Section 8 and EBT get free food and housing - - tax them a little too. Retired people get free social security money and Medicare every month just for sitting at home and watching TV, tax them double. I could go on and on, but one more. People who get their own stop light & barricades, a free camp site and parking place really should pay a hefty tax in my opinion.

Add it all up and there's some serious game changing cash we can give to Harry Kim, who, oh yeah, should have his own special tax applied to his salary. All of it.



bold by me...Having owned and operated a C corp here in Hawaii for 26 years, Nothing about my present social security check or medicare was or is FREE...I paid in double for myself and matched my employees portion...

I suggest the issue is Spending and not Taxing

I concur with your inferance of Harry's in-capabilities
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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:16:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@ kalakoa... it's foolish to invest In Hawaii, permits are worthless paper. This could become a problem.


The notion It's foolish to invest in Hawaii did not start with TMT or the protest

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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:24:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's foolish to invest in Hawaii did not start with TMT or the protest

Agree -- but the current situation is far more visible.

I keep trying figure out where it's going to end up, so I can make plans. It's pretty clear that my original plan isn't going to work anymore.
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randomq
Punatic

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:24:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Frank

Yes, good reasons both but not game changers...MONEY, now that IS the game changer



Altitude, air quality, and being in the northern hemisphere literally are game changers for a telescope. I'm sure you're a smart guy Frank, but you are coming off as some kind of science denier here. The fact that this non-profit will put tens of millions into our economy every year and millions directly into education is not a bad thing.
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:28:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the protest blockade sends a clear message: it's foolish to invest In Hawaii

Or use Hawaii references in your business:

San Francisco’s largest employer—and owner of the city’s tallest skyscraper—is toning down its obsession with Hawaii.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/salesforce-is-ditching-its-awkward-corporate-obsession-with-hawaiian-culture

You can't be too careful. What you think is a sincere affection for Hawaii, it's people, and culture, might now be termed cultural appropriation. Better back off before your life's work becomes the next target of a protest.

CEO Marc Benioff, estimated to be worth $6.1 billion, “swam with dolphins and embraced the spirit of Aloha,” according to the company blog... He returned with a mission to spread the good word... donated to volcano recovery efforts, and wore a lei during his opening keynote at the company’s annual conference last year.

Salesforce, worth $126 billion, has used effusive, happy-go-lucky Hawaiian imagery and terms since its founding in 1999. Its workforce is known as the “Salesforce Ohana... Many business publications have ranked the company as one of the nation’s best places to work.
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Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  10:44:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@ randomq...I'm sure you're a smart guy Frank, but you are coming off as some kind of science denier here.

Science, which I support, can be advanced in the Southern Hem as easily as in the Northern...Money, money is site specific and I welcome all if terms can be arranged. I add, issued permits need to be honored
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