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 who owns Mauna Kea Access Road?
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  16:35:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/08/14/video-who-owns-mauna-kea-access-road/

Short answer: DHHL, because nobody can produce paperwork showing that the road was transferred to DoT or anyone else.

"When you have a beneficiary as defined by the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1920 sitting on the Mauna Kea Access Road, what does not give them the right to be there?" Kahele questioned.

Per Hawaii County Code, the Statewide Traffic Code applies:

Section 24-2. (c) Pursuant to the authority delegated to the County by Act 173 of 1995, all streets that have been used by the general public for a period of more than six months are hereby designated by the council to be subject to the provisions of chapter 291C of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, known as the "Statewide Traffic Code," and this chapter.

There's just nothing quite like selective enforcement...

Frank
Kamaaina

999 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  16:56:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Until proven otherwise, They, the Hawaiians, own the land...should be interesting...
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  17:00:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Until proven otherwise, They, the Hawaiians, own the land...

A compelling argument -- but based on the "rule of law", which also says the road is under State (HRS 291C) and County (Chapter 24) jurisdiction.
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ironyak
Punatic

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  18:32:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kai can ignore the answers given by both DHHL and the Asst. Attorney General there in that DHHL does not own the road, nor would there need to be a land transfer process, as there has been compensation provided to allow this improvement to be built (and kept open to the public).

However his point that every DHHL beneficiary has the right to access DHHL property at will is interesting - hopefully more beneficiaries take him up on this and immediately move onto DHHL lands of their choice and set up camp - fastest way to resolve these issues. Just tell em Kai said you could.
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  19:31:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
However his point that every DHHL beneficiary has the right to access DHHL property at will is interesting

Perhaps Kai inadvertently came up with an even better idea than he intended. I do hope a few thousand Native Hawaiians take him up on his suggestion. Good luck now that precedent has been set moving their tents and lawn furniture off their claim. Will OHA continue paying for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and maybe add a delivery service? Plate lunch in 30 minutes or less - - or itís free. Either way, on time or late, itís free.
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Kaimana
Da Kine

337 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  21:52:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ironyak

Kai can ignore the answers given by both DHHL and the Asst. Attorney General there in that DHHL does not own the road, nor would there need to be a land transfer process, as there has been compensation provided to allow this improvement to be built (and kept open to the public).

However his point that every DHHL beneficiary has the right to access DHHL property at will is interesting - hopefully more beneficiaries take him up on this and immediately move onto DHHL lands of their choice and set up camp - fastest way to resolve these issues. Just tell em Kai said you could.



I think you missed where they said a land swap would be the compensation, but there was no land swap.

This is a prime example of why Hawaiians are so angry. They keep gaslighting us saying follow the laws all while they aren't and then they'll rewrite the laws to make them fit their needs.
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2019 :  23:50:06  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Kaimana wrote:

"This is a prime example of why Hawaiians are so angry."

Would it be fair to say that you don't speak for all Hawaiians? Therefore, why make the claim Hawaiians are angry? Knowing many Hawaiians who support the observatories and support the TMT, I think "frustrated" would be a better word to describe their attitude. That includes the frustration of having people speak on their behalf just like you did.
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randomq
Punatic

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  00:20:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If true, seems like an issue that should have been taken up in court long ago by DHHL. Isn't anyone doing their job over there?
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  00:26:19  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Isn't anyone doing their job over there?"

This is a rhetorical question, right?
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Kaimana
Da Kine

337 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  00:34:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomK

Kaimana wrote:

"This is a prime example of why Hawaiians are so angry."

Would it be fair to say that you don't speak for all Hawaiians? Therefore, why make the claim Hawaiians are angry? Knowing many Hawaiians who support the observatories and support the TMT, I think "frustrated" would be a better word to describe their attitude. That includes the frustration of having people speak on their behalf just like you did.



Hypocritical much? So now you speak for Hawaiians?
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  01:04:29  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana

quote:
Originally posted by TomK

Kaimana wrote:

"This is a prime example of why Hawaiians are so angry."

Would it be fair to say that you don't speak for all Hawaiians? Therefore, why make the claim Hawaiians are angry? Knowing many Hawaiians who support the observatories and support the TMT, I think "frustrated" would be a better word to describe their attitude. That includes the frustration of having people speak on their behalf just like you did.



Hypocritical much? So now you speak for Hawaiians?

Kaimana - with respect, please re-read what I actually said before squeezing the trigger.

I'm reluctantly resorting to using the quote feature on PW. I suggest you re-read what you posted and what I did. I mentioned some Hawaiians, you inplied it was all of them. My question to you was:

"Would it be fair to say that you don't speak for all Hawaiians?"

You tried to turn the argument around, but as everyone can now see, you will twist and turn and blame. Unless you are incredibly stupid, I did not speak for all Hawaiians. However, you did or at least tried to make it look as though you did. This is why it is almost impossible to negotiate with the hardcore TMT and astronomy opponents. They will continuously make things up, and be outraged if someone, even if they're Hawaiian, disagree with them.

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Kaimana
Da Kine

337 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  01:10:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did I say ALL Hawaiians?
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  01:19:16  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana

Did I say ALL Hawaiians?



You accused me of doing exactly that even though it was untrue. I was very specific in saying "some Hawaiians". And yes, you wrote:

"This is a prime example of why Hawaiians are so angry."

Please, I don't want to argue with you but just look back at what you have posted and try and understand you don't speak for everyone and how offensive your posts are becoming again. I thought you learned your lesson a week or two ago.
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Kaimana
Da Kine

337 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  01:50:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems like whenever my posts aren't in line with your views, you find them offensive. I can only think of the access question you asked, that you might have taken as offensive. You asked a question, I gave my honest opinion, and then I explained why I felt that way. Other than that I've only been going back and forth with ironyak about the joint resolution. I'm pretty sure he'd agree that was a very respectful discussion.

If I were to have wrote "This is a prime example of why people are so angry" would you have taken that to mean all people?

If anyone should be offended it should be me, with the condescension in your last post about me "learning my lesson".
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rainyjim
Punatic

2079 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  02:22:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Language matters.

Tom actually speaks the language and uses the words that means what he thinks they mean. (Not that Tom needs me to defend him, but itís something iíve noticed of late - and not just with Tom).

There are two sides to this sword.

The other side uses language that doesnít mean what they think it means, or overlooks discrepancies and then gets angry if they are pointed out thinking itís an attack on their person.

This happens all the time in Hawaii and iíve seen very few instances where the roles of Ďexplainerí played by non-local and Ďexplaineeí played by local have ended well.

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dan d
Punatic

USA
1063 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2019 :  05:47:52  Show Profile  Visit dan d's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All u do is argue. I guess thats what the forum is for?


HPP
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