Punatalk
Punatalk
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ | Donate
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Punaweb Forums
 Puna Politics
 Council Member Jen Ruggles Community Meeting
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page

Please note: All postings, business listings and advertisements are made available here, without charge, as a public service by Punaweb. No recommendations or endorsements of any specific posting, business listing or advertisement are made or implied by Punaweb.

Author Topic
Page: of 3

MsBoejangles
Newbie

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2018 :  11:56:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
COUNCIL MEMBER JEN RUGGLES HOSTS COMMUNITY MEETING

Contact: Jen Ruggles
Phone: 808-961-8263
Email: Jen.Ruggles@hawaiicounty.gov

Hilo, HI - Council member Jen Ruggles is holding a community meeting to speak with the public on the work she has been doing in her capacity as a council member to advocate on behalf of her constituents since her recent decision to refrain from legislating until the County Council’s attorney assures her that she is not committing war crimes. It will be held Monday, October 15th at 6pm at the Kea`au Community Center.

The meeting stems from an announcement that Ruggles made on August 21st stating that she had come to understand that she may be in violation of her oath of office to uphold the U.S. Constitution and may be incurring criminal liability for war crimes.

During Ruggles’ last town hall she made a presentation explaining the legal framework she is complying with and the work she has been doing. Ruggles had announced that she would be holding “frequent town halls to keep everyone updated on how she is advocating for the rights of protected persons and her district.” She announced that she “is putting every agent of the United States on notice concerning the rights of protected persons,” and handed out copies of a letter she had sent to Queen’s Hospital and 32 Hawaii circuit court judge concerning foreclosures.

Council member Jen Ruggles represents district 5 which includes upper Puna and Kalapana. Ruggles will be explaining the reasons for the letters sent to Queen’s Hospital and to the 32 circuit court judges regarding foreclosures and title insurance. She says she hopes the public will take advantage of this opportunity which is also open to people outside of her district. There will be time reserved to ask questions and comment on this complex topic with profound implications.

See Ruggles' last town hall's presentation here:http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/09/25/video-jen-ruggles-holds-community-meeting-on-war-crimes/

See the the letters and documents Ruggles' refers to here: https://jenruggles.com/latest-updates/

Lolo
Da Kine

114 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2018 :  14:54:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To msboejangles:How can Ms Ruggles be representing district 5 when she refuses to vote on issues that affect district 5?
Is she still using County resources to further her personal agenda?
Do you know who is paying her attorney?
Do you work for her and are we paying your salary as well?
Last time I checked, she took an oath of office and now she refuses to uphold that oath. That sounds like an actionable offense for County Prosecutor? Not a lawyer, but someone should check.

Edited by - Lolo on 10/10/2018 19:19:00
Go to Top of Page

randomq
Punatic

USA
1412 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2018 :  15:59:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are all county employees committing war crimes? Should they all refrain from supporting the occupying regime? Will they still be paid?
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

11539 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2018 :  17:52:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone who thinks action will be taken is delusional.

Go to Top of Page

Punaperson
Da Kine

USA
179 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2018 :  08:39:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did anyone go to her meeting on Monday night? I had prior commitments for that night, and couldn't attend. Any comments ?
Go to Top of Page

HiloPuna
Da Kine

USA
298 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2018 :  21:35:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get the Hawaii Free Press every Sunday, similarly to how I go on Fox News daily, just to make sure I'm not sitting in MY "bubble". It's unabashedly Republican and reflexively antagonistic to the Hawaii Democratic Party. However, with the dearth of available investigative reporting there's really just these guys and ( less and less so) Civil Beat. Following is a headliner from todays HFP edition on this threads subject. Of particular interest is the contradicton inherent in Ruggles complete rejection of the Kamelamela Memo (as too brief) with her utter reliance on the (similarly brief) de Zayas Memo. Further reading about de Zayas revealed that his appointment to this commission was brokered by Cuba, which somewhat explains his anti-imperialist, pro-revolutionary tendencies.

Ruggles’ Supposed Sovereignty “Expert” Has A Troubling Past)
by Jacob Perry

Big Island councilwoman Jen Ruggles has caused quite the stir over the past couple of weeks. Back in August, she made the controversial decision to neglect her legislative duties and become a martyr of the alleged war crimes of 1893 and 1898. With the help of sovereignty activist Dr. David Sai, Ruggles has been making the rounds as a “whistleblower,” holding townhalls and issuing statements about her message that the U.S. government illegally occupies the Hawaiian Islands. This claim is not new; the Hawaiian sovereignty movement has been around for decades. But this time, the commotion has some new clout: the opinion of a U.N. independent expert, Dr. Alfred-Maurice de Zayas.

Earlier this year, Dr. Sai made the bombshell announcement “United Nations Acknowledges the Occupation of the Hawaiian Kingdom,” and publicly released a memorandum written by Dr. de Zayas, a U.N. official in the Human Rights Council, in which he stated “the lawful political status of the Hawaiian Islands is that of a sovereign nation-state in continuity; but a nation-state that is under a strange form of occupation by the United States resulting from an illegal military occupation and a fraudulent annexation.”

In reality, Dr. de Zayas, in his former capacity as United Nations Independent Expert on the Promotion of a Democratic and Equitable International Order, was an outside volunteer consultant not even on the U.N.’s payroll. To say that his letter is an acknowledgement from the United Nations is both disingenuous and misleading. Regardless, Dr. Sai hailed the memo has ‘remarkable’ while Ms. Ruggles has used it as the centerpiece of her recent information campaign. But while Dr. de Zayas possesses all the trappings of a geopolitical expert and qualified academic (Ph.D. from Harvard, world-traveling law professor, Fulbright research fellow), there are more than a few cases from his professional past that raise eyebrows.

In late 2017, de Zayas became the first U.N. official in over two decades to visit Venezuela, which has been facing economic collapse and widespread famine for nearly ten years.

Immediately after the trip was announced, a coalition of 48 NGOs (non-governmental organizations, including dozens of humanitarian groups and human rights watchdogs) issued an open letter to de Zayas, urging him to set reasonable preconditions before his arrival. But he refused and instead, was welcomed warmly by Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro. De Zayas also posted propaganda photos of packed supermarkets and grocery stores. And when he returned, he doubled down by explicitly denying the existence of any famine, violence, or any humanitarian crisis, and describing Maduro’s repressive socialist regime as a “capitalist system [with] a humane face.” The Caracas Chronicles, an independent national news organization in Venezuela, said de Zayas’ “ideological blindness” was “a triumph for Venezuelan state propaganda.”

As if that wasn’t enough, de Zayas is also a hero among anti-Semites and neo-Nazis. According to British journalist and international human rights advocate Tom Gross, writing on Huffington Post, “[de Zayas’] books on World War II portray Germans as victims and the Allies as perpetrators of “genocide”… while not denying the Holocaust himself, he has nonetheless become a hero to many Holocaust deniers, and his sayings are featured on many of their websites. He has called for Israel to be expelled from the UN, while he has defended the ruthless Iranian regime.”

Mark Weber, director of the Institute for Historical Review (a think tank dedicated to Holocaust denial) has cited de Zayas’ work extensively to support his effort of downplaying the Holocaust, in which over 10 million innocent civilians were killed. Weber and de Zayas also share the view that the Nuremberg Trials, which prosecuted Nazi war criminals, was an unjustified sham. In his own words, de Zayas said the post-war tribunal had “hardly any legitimacy.” Additionally, other prominent German historians have publicly derided de Zayas, describing his work as faulty, ignorant, and historically revisionist.

This is who Dr. Sai and Ms. Ruggles have chosen to place their faith in: an apologist for dictators, and a hero to Holocaust deniers. Despite these questionable episodes from de Zayas’ career, Ms. Ruggles has decided to base her claim of war crimes and illegal occupation on his one-and-a-half-page memo. In her recent letter to all of the circuit court judges in the state, Ms. Ruggles referred to the de Zayas memo, calling it an “accurate statement of the law” that “describes the legal obligations of the United States.”

If sovereignty activists wish to make progress, or wish to foster an open dialogue about Hawaiian history, their sources and experts must stand up to scrutiny. I’m not saying that Dr. de Zayas’ defense of Maduro or his minimization of the Holocaust is automatically disqualifying, but, at the very least, it should provoke some serious concerns. Not just for him, but also for those who have aligned themselves with him.



Go to Top of Page

riversnout
Da Kine

177 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2018 :  07:47:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HiloPuna
If sovereignty activists wish to make progress, or wish to foster an open dialogue about Hawaiian history, their sources and experts must stand up to scrutiny.


This is a textbook case of the Ad Hominem logical fallacy. "argumentum ad hominem is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Ruggles (and Sai) did not say that De Zayas is a wonderful human being. I'd love to hear a rebuttal that includes things like: "The treaty of 18xx shows that your argument is flawed".
Go to Top of Page

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
7361 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2018 :  08:12:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is a textbook case of the Ad Hominem logical fallacy

The laws, treaties, and agreements Dr. de Zayas, Dr. Sai and Jen Ruggles want to discuss no longer are in effect. Dr. de Zayas, Dr. Sai and Jen Ruggles argue, due to various factors (1893, etc) that there are Hawaiian Kingdom laws, treaties, and agreements which should be in place today. However, only a court can decide that, not the three of them.

Unless they can find a court with jurisdiction over such matters, or unless the United States and Hawaiian Kingdom hold talks, it's a moot point.

Now, we can certainly discuss whether a certain law or treaty should or should not be applicable in the present day, but the preferences of the individuals will be based on their opinions. What does Dr. de Zayas believe? What causes has he backed? What is his world view? That background will give us insight into his comments, his findings, and his written opinions.

Discovering that a person has a connection with Nazis is not always an attempt at smearing a person's reputation. It can also be an objective fact, a fact which indicates and demonstrates why he promotes his specific beliefs, his other ideas, and his overall agenda.

"The great mystery is that such a state may be one of utter happiness, as it provides opinions concerning things, but no knowledge of the things themselves.” - Marguerite Young
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

11539 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2018 :  09:18:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unless they can find a court with jurisdiction over such matters

A court whose jurisdiction is recognized by both Kingdom and US...
Go to Top of Page

riversnout
Da Kine

177 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2018 :  20:58:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

The laws, treaties, and agreements Dr. de Zayas, Dr. Sai and Jen Ruggles want to discuss no longer are in effect.



How do you come to that conclusion? Do treaties have expiration dates? Oh, you must be referring to the overthrow of a sovereign state at the point of a bayonet. Sure, that seems just fine.
Go to Top of Page

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
7361 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2018 :  21:28:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How do you come to that conclusion?

When you get up tomorrow morning will you follow American laws & regulations, or kapus of the Hawaiian Kingdom? If you’re like most residents of Big Island, you’ll follow posted speed limits, pay federal taxes, excise taxes, gas taxes, regulations which allow your phone service and internet access to function. Just as the rest of the world does in their interactions with shipping regulations to Hawaii, territorial waters, etc.

Treaties don’t need an expiration date. If no one in the world acknowledges them, they cease to exist. Use it or lose it.

"The great mystery is that such a state may be one of utter happiness, as it provides opinions concerning things, but no knowledge of the things themselves.” - Marguerite Young
Go to Top of Page

riversnout
Da Kine

177 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2018 :  08:29:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I follow your reasoning, then nobody should care what the "authorities" that control your morning do. If a parcel o' rogues overthrow your government, who gives a rat's ass? As long as you get your 6 pack (plus tax) and your cable TV (plus fees), no worries? So, if that's the case why do you care what (soon to be ex) district rep Ruggles does? Why go through the process of voting? Just stop worrying about what is right or wrong, just go with it.
Go to Top of Page

kalakoa
Motormouth

11539 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2018 :  08:49:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
why do you care what (soon to be ex) district rep Ruggles does?

Precedent: I also want to collect a $75K salary for talking smack.
Go to Top of Page

HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
7361 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2018 :  08:52:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nobody should care what the "authorities" that control your morning do.

That's not at all what I'm saying.
Let's try this. Go to the website:
https://native-land.ca/

In the upper left hand corner of the page, click Treaties. Start scrolling. It's endless. Many of the treaties overlap other treaties, claims, agreements in such a way that it's impossible to untangle. Any group could come together and put forward arguments for any of the affected indigenous tribes just as Dr. de Zayas, Dr. Sai and Jen Ruggles have done for the Hawaiian Kingdom.

Do any of those treaties have an expiration date? Could they all be in affect at the same time? What would it take to decide which ones are still legal, superseding the others? Which court?

If a parcel o' rogues overthrow your government, who gives a rat's ass?

I would. It's been said:
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
I agree. Even rogues of democracy are better than rogues in other forms of authority. With democracy, and patience, at least you have a chance to get rid of them, eventually. Usually in less time and with less disruption than would be necessary for a tyrant and dictator.

"The great mystery is that such a state may be one of utter happiness, as it provides opinions concerning things, but no knowledge of the things themselves.” - Marguerite Young
Go to Top of Page

Rob Tucker
Kama'aina

9672 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2018 :  10:04:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It may come down to the question:

How much justice can you afford?
Go to Top of Page

Lolo
Da Kine

114 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2018 :  15:13:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Is she still collecting her illegal salary?
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Punatalk © 2003 to 2014 Punaweb Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06