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 Activists really religious?
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randomq
Punatic

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  09:45:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Less than 1% of Hawaii residents identify as practicing the native religion:

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/state/hawaii/

So are the activists on Mauna Kea claiming infringement of their sacred places and religious beliefs being sincere? With 180,000 people living on the Big Island, and the protest swelling to "thousands" on weekends, there have to be a lot of people up there that don't actually believe in the old gods and stories that would make the mountain "sacred". And if all the true believers are on Saddle, who does that leave for them to represent on the rest of the island? Seemingly no one?

If you have moved on to another religion, or no religion, can you still consider a place "sacred" and not simply historically or culturally important? I think the distinction is important, and the activists should be admonished for abusing such terms.

Carey
Punatic

7055 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  12:50:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
2,000 has been a weekend normal number, so a little over 1% of this island population, but there are people from all of the islands & mainland, so there is that to consider
& not everyone on the mountain is there for religious reasons.

No matter what reason there are protestors on the mountain, there will be those that question their "True Beliefs"

Having done as much as I have with the watershed, I question those that are up on the mountain protesting to protect the watershed, and yet have not updated to the Act 125 waste water standards. I wonder why they do not hold OHA & DHHL lands to the high standards of watershed protection & require Act 125 compliance on all Hawaiian Lands that are leased, or built on.
One thing I know, most up on the mountain, as most in this state that are not protesting, will wait to do "their own part" to protect the watershed, until they are forced, through the government, to comply with Act 125. However, I would love to be proven wrong. I would love to see a flood of landowners & leasees rushing to protect the watershed by doing their part to comply with Act 125.

Edited by - Carey on 08/12/2019 12:51:03
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leilanidude
Punatic

USA
3645 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  13:16:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
are the activists on Mauna Kea claiming infringement of their sacred places and religious beliefs being sincere?
----------

99.99% total bovine excrement...
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reni
Kamaaina

694 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  17:33:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

So this thread is titled ......
Activists really religious? .....Now we're wandering off into the territory of how protesters treat their household sewage! Why not!

Carey,

Agree.....cesspools are a relic of the past. As our population grows, leading to more development, the untreated waste must be threatening our ground water. This of course needs to be addressed. And to be fair, I think almost everyone, not just the protestors on Mauna Kea , will wait until they are forced by the State to comply.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/Archives

/measure_indiv_Archives.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=1244&year=2017

Further, you ask
"I wonder why they do not hold OHA & DHHL lands to the high standards of

watershed protection & require Act 125 compliance on all Hawaiian Lands that are leased, or built on. " Who is "they" ?

For me and many I know , there is a difference between Religious and spiritual.
Take for example Mt. Fuji ,
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/2007346/

or....https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/the-soft-voices-of-mauna-kea-that-should-be-heard/
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knieft
Punatic

1011 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  18:02:01  Show Profile  Visit knieft's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Calling it sacred means TMT is profane (desecration). Thus any counter argument can be dismissed.

Not a single thing in the lives of the “protectors” would be different if the TMT was constructed...excepting that their egos would be hurt.

Nevertheless, I don’t blame the “protectors” for stopping the construction. They are misguided in the target of their opposition, and apparently there is not a single “kapuna” up there that can say, “Hey, we’re barking up the wrong tree(less area)”. It may go down as the most idiotic protest in history, whether the TMT is built or not.

I blame the spineless politicians for their inaction.

There is an old story told by Ken Kesey where he is invited to speak at an anti-something or another rally. And he asks them, Do you have a flag? And they reply, Oh yeah, we have a great flag. Take a look at this! And he asks, Do you have a slogan? And they reply, oh yeah, we have a bunch of slogans! And Kesey says, well Fusk you, that’s the kind of $hit I oppose.

Cheers,
Kirt
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