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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2014 :  07:07:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
CDPs are an attempt to bridge this divide by allowing districts to self-direct their development.

This is completely correct, however each district contains a "large local landowner" who can outvote the people who actually live there.

PCDP was given the force of law in 2008, but the nice folks at Planning have decided they don't have to follow the CDPs if they don't feel like it.

When you have representatives outside your unique geographical location, they may find a measure completely inappropriate for their region and therefore vote against what another region may need.

This pattern repeats itself again on a smaller scale: the various huge subdivisions also want different things, so any plan which encompasses all these becomes a "lowest common denominator".

Trade up to what?

Start with: those leaving LZ1/LZ2 get preferential access to the tax foreclosure auction when "trading up" to LZ3 or better.

Camping passes would work how?

In lieu of a Certificate of Occupancy; side effect is that any "camping" structure doesn't become a first-class building (taxes, insurance, "loss").
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2014 :  07:47:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Technically anyone may camp on their own property already. The only exception to this guaranteed non-enumerated right is found in subdivisions with CC&R's that prohibit camping.

ETA.. I dislike the use of "un" in a word when not applicable as it suggest something that formerly was but no longer is.

Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/13/2014 07:52:19
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2014 :  08:10:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Much of the building code needs to be tossed out the window for Puna. This wont happen in this County as it currently exists. Another aspect to this is the state requirements for building permits. The state allows each county to decide for themselves if they wish to implement building permits but muddied the issue by also making it mandatory that such permits must also apply to private owner builders. Then went on further to insult the authority by mandating owners builders be also considered contractors. There's a fundamental legal flaw in both of these added burdens regarding owner builders. The challenge has yet to be brought before the federal courts. Hawaii is not alone in making this mistake.

The state has made the fundamental mistake in exercising it's constitutional power to regulate commerce and extended it to the private home owner building their own home. This would be like assuming a mother at home making clothes for her family to be engaging in the business of manufacturing clothing and therefore allowing the state to surmise their police power extends into the fabrication of clothing for oneself and their family members.

No state has yet to provide a compelling argument that community safety is at stake with regard to the owner builder building a home for themselves, that it threatens the safety of the community. Thus the non-enumerated right has been trampled on with no challenge brought forth yet.

Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/13/2014 08:29:46
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2014 :  11:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Technically anyone may camp on their own property already.

Only if you sleep in the open, or have the necessary permits.

Permit required for tent unless camping on approved camp ground; any building used for "habitation" must have "approved wastewater disposal"; any vehicle which remains stationary for 24h becomes a building.

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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2014 :  17:56:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kalakoa.
Cite the source please. Also keep in mind the context in which they apply.
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  07:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
These definitions are from the County Code and should be taken in a "complaint-driven" context.

Permit required for any structure except a tent for "private party or approved camping".

Section 5-1.0.8.
(a) Permits Required. No person, firm, or corporation shall erect, construct, enlarge, alter, repair, convert, or demolish any building or structure in the County, or cause the same to be done, without first obtaining a separate building permit for each building or structure from the building official; provided that one permit may be obtained for a dwelling and its accessories, such as fence, retaining wall, pool, storage and garage structures.
EXCEPTIONS: A permit is not required for:
(4) Temporary tents or other coverings used for private family parties or for camping on approved camp grounds.

Recreational vehicle:

Section 27-12. Definitions.
"Recreational vehicle" means a vehicle which is:
(4) Designed primarily not for use as a permanent dwelling but as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, travel, or seasonal use.

Building:

Section 5-1.0.17.
BUILDING. A building is any structure used or intended for supporting any use or occupancy. The term shall include but not be limited to any structure mounted on wheels such as a trailer, wagon or vehicle which is parked and stationary for any 24-hour period, and is used for business or living purposes; provided, however, that the term shall not include a push cart or push wagon which is readily movable and which does not exceed 25 square feet in area, nor shall the term include a trailer or vehicle, used exclusively for the purpose of selling any commercial product therefrom, which holds a vehicle license and actually travels on public or private streets.

Wastewater disposal required:

Section 25-4-2.
Conditions for construction of buildings designed for human occupancy.
(a) On any building site, no building designed or intended for human occupancy shall be constructed and no permit therefor shall be issued unless:
(2) A wastewater treatment system for the proposed building has been approved by the State department of health.

Camping only allowed in specific named locations:

Section 15-39. Camping and trailer areas.
Camping and the use of trailers or other camper units are only permitted as follows:
(1) At LaupÄ.hoehoe Beach Park, Kolekole Beach Park, Isaac Hale Memorial Park,* Punaluâ..u Black Sand Beach Park, Whittington Beach Park, Miloliâ..i Beach Park, Hoâ..okena Beach Park, Mahukona Park, Kapaa Park, and Samuel Spencer Beach Park,* the use of trailers or other camper units are permitted on any suitable place other than picnic or lawn areas. The camper shall give due regard to the rights and convenience of other users of the park, shall not obstruct any roadway or pathway, and shall not monopolize any facility intended for the use of all users of the park.

Camping cannot be permanent:

Section 15-42. Regulations governing camping areas.
(a) The installation of permanent camping facilities is prohibited.
(c) Camping equipment must be completely removed and the sites cleaned before departure.

Camping requires permit:

Section 15-43. Camping permit required; issuance; denial.
(a) Any person eighteen years of age or older, representing such person or such person's family, a group, organization, or association wishing to camp at a designated camping area shall be required to obtain a camping permit authorizing the use of the grounds and facilities for camping purposes.

A "picnic" (on parks&rec land) automatically becomes "camping" at 11pm:

Section 15-3.
Definitions.
(8) "Picnicking".. means an outing by one or more persons who consume or intend to consume food while within the boundaries of a public premises under the jurisdiction of the department of parks and recreation, but who do not remain or intend to remain on the premises past the hour of 11:00 p.m. If the outing is past the hour of 11:00 p.m., it shall be known as camping and shall be governed by those provisions relating to camping.
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  08:20:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Section 5-1.0.8?
Section 5-1.0.17.?
No longer exist.
Section 15 deals with parks and public land not private land use.
Section 15-2. Applicability and scope of chapter. (a) This chapter shall apply to all County parks and recreational areas.


Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/14/2014 09:32:25
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  08:22:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Section 25 deals exclusively with buildings.
Section 5 directs to the IBC and the IBC does not recognise tents within its scope or definitions. Buildings and structures as commonly defined within the scope of building codes. Buildings are main permanent structures used for occupation, storage and the likes thereof. Structures are typically accessories to buildings such as decks, cisterns and the likes but can also permanently stand alone on a parcel such as tower for radio communications, wind turbines and so on.
The key to buildings and structures are their permanence within or upon the subject parcel.

Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/14/2014 08:39:08
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  09:02:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Land use designations (zoning) is where you'll find the answers with regard to using a tent on your own private property. Therein you may find that one may or may not be allowed to set up a camping park on their private parcel for use by the general public. As per personal camping on own private parcel, you're most likely not going to find it addressed anywhere in the codes.

Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/14/2014 09:22:49
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  09:48:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As per personal camping on own private parcel, you're most likely not going to find it addressed anywhere in the codes.

As a practical matter, this means County will need to "make a determination" as to which Code sections are being violated, which means we're right back to "spot zoning" and "spot enforcement".

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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  10:18:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Section 5-19. Permit required. (a) No person, fir...

EXCEPTIONS: A permit is not required for:
(1) Work loca...
(4) Temporary tents or other coverings used for private family parties or for camping on approved campgrounds.

Should we infer this sentence to mean that we cannot allow our children to camp in a tent in our own backyards for a weekend without a county permit? Think about that very carefully.

This sentence wreaks of undermining the non enumerated rights of citizens if interpreted as such. Fortunately for the County the use of the conjunction or can be inferred to separate the phrase "temporary tents" and therefore remain intact without violating non enumerated rights.

Since the county has never charged anyone for violation of failing to obtain a permit when camping in a tent on their own property. We can likewise infer that the intent of this passage is not limited to the uses mentioned therein.

We can also infer that the sentence is utilized as a matter of confusion to persuade one not to camp on their own private property but nowhere will you find a code that outright bans the activity as that would be struck down by the federal courts as soon as it was brought forward.



Edited by - Wao nahele kane on 11/14/2014 10:20:40
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Wao nahele kane
Punatic

USA
2494 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  10:37:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The fact is, very few people camp on their own property and even fewer camp for any extended length of time thus there would be no reason for the county to make such an absurd law that prohibits the activity without a permit.

When Emily Naoele brought forward legislation that would seek to allow camping on private property under specified circumstances. The head of the building department was interviewed by the news and he stated that the current codes under the building code had nothing to do with tents and camping on ones own property, that it's exempt and that the proposed tent legislation would introduce further responsibilities that the building department could not enforce.
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2014 :  11:39:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
very few people camp ... even fewer camp for any extended length of time

People do, sometimes for years; when this happens in Puna, no enforcement follows.

there would be no reason for the county to make such an absurd law

Yet there it is, ready to be used selectively if and when the situation warrants.
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pbmaise
Kamaaina

USA
939 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2014 :  08:22:16  Show Profile  Visit pbmaise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Punatics,
No mention of Kau?
Isn't that district faced with almost identical issues?

I think we do not need a separate county within Hawaii County.

Rather we need a far stronger office for our council member. An office that provides assistance to people and shows them how to do things like get an SUP.

Instead of all sitting at the gym getting a lecture from Civil Defense that we will be safe, we need to be planting lilikoi for our SUP approved home based lilikoi jam factory.

My grandmother grew raspberries In Detroit, Canned hand picked raspberry jam and sold it to neighbors. Until we break down barriers to run micro businesses, we will be stuck on welfare or forced to drive to Hilo.


Kalakoa,

You wrote
In retrospect,all those subdivisions in/around LZ1 make no sense.

I disagree.

Once flow is established in Zone 1 it travels downhill to Zone 2. Coming from the same small point in Zone 1, a single eruption site can inundate far more acreage In Zone 2.

There is no crime of use insurance to gamble on properties with forested lands hundreds of years old.

There is a crime to fail to plan ingress.
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2014 :  08:50:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is no crime of use insurance to gamble on properties with forested lands hundreds of years old. There is a crime to fail to plan ingress.

I see these as facets of the same problem: the property is "valuable" for purposes of permits and taxation, but somehow magically "not worth it" for purposes of legal access.

Either build the infrastructure that people are paying for, or relieve them of the obligation to pay for roads that will never be built.

This goes double for the Fuel Tax scam.
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