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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  18:39:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Harry Kim blames Ige for changing tactics the first day of the protest.
Ige blames Hawaii police, & unified command (if it was unified, why were officers so confused when interviewed soon afterward?)

“And the governor obviously had a very difficult decision and said no we should not use force, physical force because the question was of tasers and the question was of mustard gas,” Kim added. (Kim mistakenly referred to the military chemical weapon mustard gas but meant pepper spray.) When Insights host and Hawaii News Now Managing Editor Daryl Huff pressed Kim for clarification, the mayor said that Ige ultimately made the decision to call off the operation to clear the road that day.

Kim’s response is in contradiction to a statement by the Governor’s Office, which said the “ultimate decision” to call off the arrests “was made by Hawaii County Police Department with the support of unified command.”

”Ferreira, of Hawaii County police, also responded to questions about that day in a letter. “The protesters are considered as acting illegally by blocking the road,”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/17/law-enforcement-or-politicians-ordered-police-retreat-mauna-kea-mayor-kim-points-governor-ige/

Edited by - HereOnThePrimalEdge on 08/16/2019 19:04:29
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ironyak
Punatic

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  18:55:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
(wrong thread, or not?) Joni Mitchell didn't play Woodstock (manager said it would be better to appear on The Dick Cavett Show), but she was at the Waikiki Shell a few years later. Hard to imagine that she didn't play this while here in Hawaii:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaMw4-jjdSM
And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look behind
From where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  19:39:15  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HOTPE,

"Would it be possible for scientists and students to request a police escort through the blockade? Those with legitimate business on the mountain could show their ID to actual officers of the law, who then would tell protestors the people they’re escorting are legally allowed to pass without interference."

Observatory staff did originally ask and got police escorts when we first got limited access, but as things became a little smoother the protesters got used to the traffic, the need for an escort didn't appear to be necessary. However, if things start becoming difficult again (not that they're particularly easy right now), requests might start happening again. But it's clearly not right that you have to ask for a police escort simply to go to work.

In addition, I'm sure the sheriffs would be more than happy to provide an escort but they are stationed farther up the mountain near the VIS. DOCARE officers are closer (by the cattleguard just behind the protester encampment) and I'm not convinced they would be willing to provide an escort given their behavior so far.
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ironyak
Punatic

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  19:42:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Care to elaborate? DOCARE has a bad rep for many given their treatment of lower Puna residents during the lava flow so wondering what more can they get wrong.
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  19:48:15  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't want to say too much, but basically, it's their lack of action that's the problem - they seem to have no problem witnessing illegal behavior right in front of them by protesters. Obviously, I can't say too much more about this, but they have also interfered with the sheriffs when they tried to carry out the law and arrest some protesters who were being stupid and aggressive.
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HereOnThePrimalEdge
Punatic

South Sandwich Islands
8315 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  20:22:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DOCARE officers are closer... and I'm not convinced they would be willing to provide an escort given their behavior so far.

Sounds more like they’ve posted DON’TCARE officers at the cattle guard.
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ironyak
Punatic

USA
3084 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  20:55:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ba dum tsh. That's the show folks, he'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your waitress and try the veal (grass-fed on the slopes of Maunakea of course)
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  23:00:43  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"Harry Kim blames Ige for changing tactics the first day of the protest. Ige blames Hawaii police, & unified command (if it was unified, why were officers so confused when interviewed soon afterward?)"

There is no unified command center. Well, in theory, there is, but "unified" is not the right adjective. What's so depressing about this is the state and county have had four years to prepare and even that doesn't seem long enough for them to have got their act together.
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TomK
Punatic

USA
8511 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2019 :  23:12:10  Show Profile  Visit TomK's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jimbo2017 - if you are reading on Saturday, please drop me a line. You can do so via

https://www.blogger.com/profile/07917420597770463210

where there is a link to my email. Alternatively, you can go here:

http://www.ukirt.hawaii.edu/contact.html

and figure out my work email address.

The observatories are tracking MK access incidents and are in touch with the AG plus others, so would like to get more details of the UH ecology research incident. Thanks.
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Jimbo2017
Newbie

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  00:31:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tom. OMKM was involved the whole time. They are reporting directly to police. If the observatories have their own list or way contact authorities, then that speaks to the lack of communication of people with State agencies in this response.

Mauka Hilo-side
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dan d
Punatic

USA
1063 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  04:49:41  Show Profile  Visit dan d's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure where to post this,

KIM a few loads short of a full barrel . Mustard gas???????


They called me because I could pass word on to the governor because this was a State Operation,” Kim answered. “With DOCARE people and sheriffs and police officers. And Governor – obviously a very difficult decision – said, no, we should not force physical force.”

“The question was of tasers. Question was mustard gas,” Kim said, although he later acknowledged to Hawaii News Now that “mustard gas” – a chemical warfare agent – was said in error and was never in the police toolkit.



HPP
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randomq
Punatic

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  13:43:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maui's mayor put a quick stop to road-blocking on Haleakala, arresting the very same folks now protesting on Mauna Kea:

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/08/19/hawaii-news/officials-should-follow-mauis-example-former-mayor-says/?HSA=87aedd5761fd75fd7d4d885e539e67b5a096dc91

quote:

While the Maui incidents weren’t exactly on the same scale, former Maui Mayor Alan Arakawa says authorities handling the TMT protest would have been wise to follow Maui’s example.

“We didn’t fool around,” Arakawa recalled. “It was, this is what the law is, and this is how you enforce it.”

Arakawa said the time for negotiation with TMT protesters was long past as the $1.4 billion project survived a lengthy governmental review plus legal challenges that went all the way to the state Supreme Court.

“It comes down to a simple question: Are we a community of laws, or are we a community where anyone who raises an objection can defy those laws?” he said. “We are legally bound to uphold the laws of the state of Hawaii and the U.S. That’s our obligation.

“We’re going to let a handful of people stop what most people believe is a good project? It hardly makes sense in a democratic society,” he said.

Arakawa said authorities should have taken decisive action at the beginning of the TMT protest because the task is only going to get harder.

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Chunkster
Punatic

2085 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  14:03:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
“It comes down to a simple question: Are we a community of laws, or are we a community where anyone who raises an objection can defy those laws?” he said. “We are legally bound to uphold the laws of the state of Hawaii and the U.S. That’s our obligation.

Gee, d'ya think?

State Senator Elaine Inouye has become one of the few Hawaii politicians currently in office to take a clear stand in favor of clearing the road and building the TMT. Read her letter to Ige here:

https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/08/20/opinion/inouye-to-ige-its-time/

From the letter, bolding mine:

Make no mistake, our future — and our children’s future — is at stake.

Although I take exception to her use of the offensive term "host culture," I give her kudos for speaking the overriding truth.
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rainyjim
Punatic

2079 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  14:27:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chunkster, not that I disagree with you, but why do you find ‘host culture’ offensive?
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kalakoa
Motormouth

12431 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2019 :  14:38:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maui's mayor put a quick stop to road-blocking on Haleakala

Maui is somewhat more functional than the Big Island.
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