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+--- Thread: "new" magic bullet for LFA? (/showthread.php?tid=17547)
"new" magic bullet for LFA? - terracore - 08-20-2016
I noticed some LFA in our bathroom and instead of reaching for the Siesta, I thought I would try an experiment.
I put a tiny amount of Advion Roach Bait Gel ( https://www.amazon.com/Insecticide-Australian-Smoky-Brown-Brown-Banded-cockroaches/dp/B00730QW70/ ) and the ants were attracted to it. When I looked a few days later, no more ants in the bathroom.
Sometimes LFA come and go for no apparent reason so I wasn't sure the gel was the cause of the disappearance so I decided to run an experiment. I found a pretty substantial LFA highway in our lanai today. I put two drops of the gel out. One right alongside the highway and another about a foot away (to see if they would be drawn to the bait rather than just running into it by happenstance). Both drops are now surrounded by LFA.
Advion also makes an ant gel but it is a "sweet" based gel so I didn't want to bother with it. The ant based gel is 0.05% Indoxacarb and the roach based gel is 0.6%. It will be interesting to see if the Indoxacarb makes it back to the colony at the higher concentration to kill the colony, or if the ants die before the transfer can occur, or if nothing happens. I'll watch the ants and give an update.
Being a gel, it can be applied to surfaces Siesta can't, like on shrubs and trees. I put some on a palm and some of it did survive a decent rain but after an overnight rain it was gone.
From roach literature: "The brief delay in mortality caused by the active ingredient Indoxacarb allows cockroaches to consume the bait and return to the harborage site to contaminate other cockroaches resulting in significant reduction in infestation levels. Each roach that comes in contact with bait can contaminate up to 40 other roaches by way of contact, feces, or the other roaches feeding on its poisoned carcass. This domino effect knocks out roach populations at an incredible rate."
From ant literature: "Indoxacarb is an oxadiazine pesticide originally manufactured and patented by DuPont. Since Indoxacarb is the only chemical in its class, it offers laboratory-tested benefits that other pesticides simply cannot duplicate. For starters, Indoxacarb remains active even after digestion so it can be passed along to other insects through bait sharing. It is the first pest control bait that scientists have found to remain active after it has been transferred twice after the first lethal dose. Passing poison like this from one insect to another is known as horizontal transfer."
An indoxacarb-based bait granule was tested for LFA by the HAL but was rated as "hit or miss" in its efficacy, though it's unknown if that was due to baiting action or the poison.
ETA: I just found a new dimension to this experiment. I found a second LFA highway in the lanai. So now I have a "control" group. Are they going back to the same colony? I don't know, but if they stay or disappear in relation to the group with the poison will be interesting.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - DTisme - 08-20-2016
Good info! Thanks for experimenting, too. Looking forward to the results.
btw, did you buy it locally or from amazon? If amazon, I won't try to find here.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - terracore - 08-20-2016
Amazon prime, about $31, I see that its dropped to about $27 on the link above.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - Kapoho Joe - 08-20-2016
This sounds promising, keep us posted please.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - terracore - 08-20-2016
After a little over 4 hours both ribbons of ants are nearly gone. Not ribbons of dead like when you use the boric acid stuff, I mean just disappeared.
I wouldn't rush out and buy the stuff yet, it could be a normal schedule change for them or in response to the heat. I will leave the area undisturbed and see if they return tomorrow morning.
Here's an interesting article from Purdue:
ABSTRACT
Horizontal Transfer of Bait in the German Cockroach: Indoxacarb Causes Secondary and Tertiary Mortality
"One dose of an insecticide can kill three generations of cockroaches as they feed off of each other and transfer the poison, according to Purdue University entomologists who tested the effectiveness of a specific gel bait."
http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2008a/080623BuczkowskiRoach.html
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - birdmove - 08-20-2016
I've heard good things about Advion when used for cockroaches.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - Punatic007 - 08-20-2016
I recently tried spraying Spinosad for LFA, non-toxic and also a fertilizer. The best price I got was a quart for $23 including shipping on ebay. It only covered 1/2 acre but I am somewhat impressed. although it is recommended to be repeated each month and doesn't carry back to the colony. Perhaps an addition of terracores experiment and only spraying every 3 months.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - Eric1600 - 08-20-2016
According to the Hawaii Ant Lab guys, LFA learn from toxins and once some of the workers or parts of the colony die off they are quick to avoid that bait again. So it might work temporarily, but in the long run you have to alternate between a bait with IGR (insect growth regulator) like Tango and a bait with toxin. Those roach baits typically have boric acid in them as the toxin which you can buy for much cheaper and mix to make your own bait if you want. Roaches like sweet things, but a cheap sweet peanut butter will attract LFA workers too as they seek proteins. They use other insects as slaves and farm carbohydrates using them so they don't seek out sugars.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - terracore - 08-20-2016
This product contains indoxacarb, which is a "brand name" of Methyl 7-chloro-2,5-dihydro-2-[[(methoxycarbonyl)[4-(trifluoromethoxy)phenyl]amino]carbonyl]indeno[1,2-e][1,3,4]oxadiazine-4a(3H)-carboxylate. That is the poison in the bait, not to infer that it is a "carb"ohydrate based bait. If it contains boric acid, it is not listed as an active ingredient.
I don't know if "learn" is the right description, but LFA do stop taking Amdro after a few uses. I don't know if that is due to the poison or an issue with the baiting mechanism. I have used Siesta for years and the LFA have never shown an aversion to it. Amdro uses the same corn-grit delivery method but for some reason doesn't seem to work after the first few times.
It is possible the LFA will stop taking this cockroach bait, or it might be ineffective entirely. It will be an interesting experiment either way.
I have tried the HAL Tango recipe and other products with (S)-methoprene labeled for ants (like Amdro Firestrike and Extinguish Plus). I know others claim different results but I have found the (S)-methoprene products to be worthless on LFA. After a year without success I moved on. Apparently so did the HAL considering they didn't use it to eradicate LFA on the other islands.
RE: "new" magic bullet for LFA? - ericlp - 08-20-2016
yup, that is way you have to keep switching up the baits. But, I also noticed that if they are hungry, they will go after it... So it's a win/win situation. Same say ant's won't go after the liquid bait, mine do!
Lot's of dead ants!