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+--- Thread: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! (/showthread.php?tid=1862)
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Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Guest - 02-11-2008
...police said brawls in Waikiki have escalated in the last year.
The police official blames two things. The smoking ban, in effect since 2006, which has brought more people out onto the streets, and more night clubs are staying open until 4 a.m. keeping people drunk.
I can totally see this correlation. I live outside of Waikiki and I too have noticed an increase in the amount of Street Fights.
I've also been reading about a lot of fights down on Banyan Drive on the Big Island. I wonder if the smoking ban might have also contributed to these?
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Coming home soon!
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Carey - 02-11-2008
Damon, the Banyan fights have been going on since way before the indoor smoking ban....
I have not seen data on any increase, could be there is an increase, but the outside fights are not a new phenomenon. There have also been change of ownships that could also effect the patronage, and I seem to remember the sports bar had some legal troubles (licenses or something)
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Guest - 02-11-2008
I used to live above Shooters about 12 years ago. There were not as many fights then, as there has been in the last few years.
I'm not saying that the smoking ban is the number one reason, however, I can see where people would tend to act up more outside of a business then inside of a business.
Being forced outside to smoke outside and being drunk at the same time can make for some bad moods[
]I will certainly say that Alcohol is the main problem... I'm just saying that I agree with the HPD and that the smoking ban has had at least a little part in the increase in fights here.
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RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Kelena - 02-11-2008
When people who have to go outside to smoke (outside, where the weather is a balmy 65-70 degrees even at midnight)start smacking each other around, I suspect there is a deeper problem than being forced to smoke outside.
Letting the bars stay open so late, though, gives people plenty of chances to get fueled up. Alcohol plus testosterone poisoning can equal violence pretty easily.
The most disturbing aspect of this is the attitude of the police. You've got a video. Could you investigate? I hate the surveillance society, but perhaps a little human surveillance or even surveillance of the artificial kind might help.
Really, any concerted effort might help. One of the disappointing aspects of the islands for me is that there is no one to maintain civil order. It is a little like New Orleans. The difference, I think, in Hawaii is that there was never really a culture where people needed a lot of protection, but now, with Ice and the economy, the culture is changing for the worse, and the law enforcement culture has not caught up, nor will it. Law enforcement in Hawaii cannot be taken seriously while the police are understaffed, underpaid, undertrained, and have strap-on blue lights.
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Guest - 02-13-2008
In todays Advertiser they also mention the increase in Bar Fights and put a correlation to the smoking ban with them.
But residents partly blame the smoking ban in clubs, which means people go outside to light up.
While outside, residents contend, people start fights.
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RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Bob Orts - 02-13-2008
The police report no increase in fights outside restaurants since the smoking ban went into effect.
The police report no increase in fights outside office buildings since the smoking ban went into effect.
The police report no increase in fights outside supermarkets since the smoking ban went into effect.
The police report no increase in fights outside lumber yards since the smoking ban went into effect.
The police report no increase in fights outside theaters since the smoking ban went into effect.
The police report no increase in fights outside ...........
Let's blame the real cause, alcohol, instead of the smoking ban. The truth is, while patrons are inside the building, the business has a legal responsibility to maintain order. But, when the patron steps outside, the business starts pretending they are not responsible for the conduct even though they directly contributed to the intoxication. There's no real connection between the increased fights and the smoking ban. The connection is that increased fights outside bars occur because the legislature did not pass a law requiring the business to maintain control over their patrons. I say if you own a bar, you’re responsible for the conduct of your patrons within 1,000' of your establishment.
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Guest - 02-13-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Orts
..... The truth is, while patrons are inside the building, the business has a legal responsibility to maintain order. But, when the patron steps outside, .......
Patrons wouldn't be stepping outside to light up if there wasn't a ban on the inside
]That's my whole point!
Once they are forced to step outside.... the gloves come off so to speak.
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RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Carey - 02-13-2008
The liquor commission covers not just within the establishment
"The commission may, at any time, revoke, suspend, or place conditions, or restrictions on any license issued under the rules of the commission for the purpose of preventing activities within the licensed premises or adjacent related area, such as stages, entertainment areas, lanais, and parking areas, which are potentially injurious to the health, safety, and welfare of the public."
So if the fights are injurious to the health, safety & welfare, the establishment could lose its license.
The tippling laws cover bartenders who serve too much (both bartender & establishment can lose their license, can be held liable by grieved parties, and can face fines).
Maybe the laws should be enforced.
Again, the fights are not new, they have had problems on Banyon for years. My opinion is that any bar that has had its' license denied once for lack of control (fights)& still has problems, will always have problems. Maybe the establishments that cannot control their bartenders or patrons should be shut down permanently. I do not see this as anything but passing the buck. Enforce the tippling laws and liquor commissons regulations at that bar & I suspect that the fights will not happen.
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - Kelena - 02-14-2008
Here I go being naive again, but isn't Banyan Drive a touristy area? Is there a tourist commission in Hilo, and aren't they concerned about this? This just reinforces my developing idea that the lack of law enforcement is the number one problem in Hawaii. Period.
RE: Bar fights and the Smoking Ban: HPD says related! - LeeE - 02-14-2008
Yes, it's always alcohol and violence isn't it?
Perhaps "safer" would be better for our society, in terms of public policy?
Hey, it works in Holland.
Lean on the dangerous stuff and lay off the benign one as a matter of policy?