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+--- Thread: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow (/showthread.php?tid=1914)
Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - dakine - 03-02-2008
I am ashamed of our county and state governments decision to restrict people's access to lava viewing. read:
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2008/03/01/local_news/local02.txt
after all the years of experience it should be clear to harry and his gang that bringing a police mentality to the situation is just dumb!
we talk about tourism as a revenue source. we sell our beaches wholesale to be built up and given over to the tourist dollar. and in the end we have so few beaches that we are never going to be any sort of world class tourist destination. but hey one has to make a buck... and this is the way we have collectively agreed to make our fortunes. so where other islands have lined their shores with hotels and are raking in the bucks we are letting a draw bigger than all those postcard perfect hotels put together just slip away. and why? is it not the whole bush administration fear fear fear mentality that drives our government anymore? lock em up is the name of the game. the feds lock up people they dont like without due process.. so hey whats the big deal when the local boys lock up the land?
in over 20 years of documenting the eruptions here I have seen thousands of people from all over the world do all they could to view the lava. believe me once someone gets the bug they will do just about anything for a glimpse of this wonderful example of natures power. we that live on the island may take it for granted but it is far more attractive than we who live here know. and why is it that our government does not feel strongly compelled to make this phenomenon available to everyone is beyond me. especially after we have had so many years to develop a policy/plan of action so as to be able to take advantage of situations like this one where lava is once again relatively close and in a relatively safe place to view. it makes me sad to think the possibilities of a healthy caring locally aware government that I had hoped harry would create has not materialized. it makes me sadder still to think that we must restrict people from viewing nature
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Big_Island - 03-02-2008
I totally agree with ya bro...
My bet is as soon as the lava makes it to the ocean we will see them start charging an entrance fee to get into the Kalapana side of the lava field.
Thats just my guess though...
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Kahunascott - 03-02-2008
Hey Dakine, I guess you didn’t read my post under Volcano acting up. I don't agree with your blanket statement, “I am ashamed of our county and state governments decision to restrict people's access to lava viewing.”
For right now that’s the best thing that they can do!
It’s not DUMB, it’s SAFETY first.
Your other comment that it’s a, “relatively safe place to view”. While the area may be somewhat accessible from the highway it’s not safe at night. Have you made the trip?
We went out last Wed night and the trip through Kalapana is very, very dangerous at night. The last mile off the road is a single lane road. If two cars face off one or the other has to back up in the dark that is nearly impossible. Thank god for our 4X4 PU truck, without that we couldn’t have made it. There were about 75 cars at the circle and 25 more parked along the road and we passed about 20 cars on the road in and out.
I do agree with you that the lava flow should be seen by all but not on that road. The county isn’t going to take the liability of serious injury or death to some tourist. The area isn’t and shouldn’t be set up for tourist.
The only way to make viewing save would be to limit the vehicles in and out and that would be nearly impossible. We would have a line of vehicles on 130 back to Leilani Estates. Furthermore, people live and own property in that area it’s not a National or State park. Unfortunately the public should be restricted from this area until it can be made safe. Maybe bulldoze the Chain of Crater Road to the new flow location and let the Fed’s handle the tourist.
BTW, President Bush had nothing to do with road closing of Kalapana Road.
"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Big_Island - 03-02-2008
If you think back to every time the lava has made in into this area...
WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ALLOWED TO GO SEE IT!
Last time Harry K. improved the road that your saying is too dangerous and started charging everyone coming in to view the lava....
I cant remember anyone ever having a bad accident or getting seriously hurt in this area (Kalapana side). I do remember Harry K. saying that 3000+ cars were using that road everyday... and now its suddenly too dangerous?
This time its totally off limits and only because the lava has not showed which way its going to take to the ocean...
Just wait till the lava makes a path to the ocean... You'll see them start charging people to come view it if the lava keep flowing, I can almost guarantee it!!
As for its unsafe at night... All they need to do it put the road reflectors on the easiest route through the lava field (JUST LIKE THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE)
I think it might seem very dangerous to someone who does not know the area well. But to the people who have been here through other eruptions where the lava was in the Kalapana Coastal Flats this does seem a little odd...
Thats just my 2 pennies... [
]RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - John S. Rabi - 03-02-2008
Scott is right and add the liability issue to the situation. The COH would be foolish to let people go there.
Aloha,
John S. Rabi ABR,CM,CRB,FHS,PB,RB
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Kapohocat - 03-02-2008
I disagree. Restricting access is about like gun control. Those of us that would obey the restrictions arent the ones who stupidly hike all the way out, without water, no flashlighs, in dark clothing and get into danger.
We were out there last night. There were 30+ cars. Most were like us with a tailgate dinner at sunset.
Everyone was polite. I dont want to say maybe its the newbies, but from traveling on the old acres road when they were still one lane and dirt, you pull over enough where it is safe, stop, turn only parking lots on until the car passes. No one should be going fast at all and we didn't see anyone doing that. Actually it is pretty difficult to drive fast there unless you really like bouncing around.
A vehicle with high clearance is preferable, definately. But 4 WD is not necessary. I have taken my little station wagon out many times in the last few years.
The people that we did think were idiots last night were a couple of hippies who live nearby and walked in, then walked out towards flow wih no flashlights, and in slippers. Our 20's somethings had walked about 1/2 mi from car but had SB's million candlepower flashlight so they helped them ge back. In the name of safety, the boys had on white tshirts, and were in hiking boots. The leader had been out here many times over the years.
We also were out there with a property owner who has a lot just behind the yellow gate. We dont go out there with out a resident.
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - JerryCarr - 03-02-2008
I'll never forget the first time the Bear and I came to the Big Island in 2001. The County was charging $5 to get onto the lava road at Kalapana. They had a very bored looking young woman in a trailer collecting the money. There was a poster propped up on a folding chair with safety tips. At the end of the trail where the lava was going into the ocean they had some ropes to keep the crowd about 15 yards from the actual lava. There were four more bored County employees under a pop-up tent playing cards and smoking cigarettes. They were supposed to be monitoring the safety factor, but weren't even looking at the lava.
After we had been there a couple of hours, one of the tourists hollered, "Geez, guys, it's headed this way." A little rivulet of lave had started coming toward us. One of the guys in the pop-up came over and looked at it and then went back to the card game. After talking with the others and finishing a hand of cards, two of the four came over and said, "We need you guys to move back." Someone complained that it wasn't moving very fast and we should be allowed to photograph it, so they went back and played some more cards for about ten minutes and then moved the rope back about five yards. We had a great time and got some killer pictures.
Such was the County's safety monitoring of the eruption. Seeing as how nobody got roasted during that episode, I can only assume that their present caution is based on something other than learning the hard way back then.
Cheers,
Jerry
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - missydog1 - 03-02-2008
I think that you guys who don't interact with the average Big Island tourist have no idea how lacking many are in common sense and education. They'd be out there with their toddlers on their backs. They come here with the mentality that anything advertised in the brochures has some sort of illusory safety, and they can go see the lava with as little thought as standing in line for a ride at Disneyland.
You really want to see the back roads of Puna flooded with rental cars?
I may sound like I'm scornful of these visitors, but I see the fault for this cluelessness lying with the clueless bloggers and others who give their "glowing" reports of how "we did it and we had the time of our lives!" with zero warnings or education attached.
As for County enforcement, should County administration make its rules taking into account the slothful attitude of its employees? That's a tough one. I think they have to act because the County WILL be sued for millions if the County doesn't act to cover potential liability and someone gets hurt.
RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Big_Island - 03-02-2008
lol
Maybe they should restrict lava viewing to Eastside Big Island Residents ONLY....
LONG LIVE the PUNATIC MENTALITY [
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RE: Restricted Access to the Lava Flow - Mitzi M - 03-02-2008
I have to agree with you, Kathy, about the number of tourists who may not be up to speed about lava safety. Our island has been made out to be a drive-in volcano theme park, so I guess it's only natural that people think they'll be able to see the lava in relative safety. I also drove down there last night and there were so, so many cars, cruising up and down the narrow road with me. But what I thought was probably the most dangerous thing when I was there was the vog. At first it didn't seem too bad, but after a while the wind stopped and it got nasty. As I drove out I could really see it in the headlights and even today my lungs and throat feel kinda rough. Since I live here I guess I'm supposed to know about the dangers of vog, but even so I got a pretty nasty dose. I wonder how it would be if there were 75 cars at the end of the road in the dark and the kona wind kicked up. I'm not a fan of the government protecting us from ourselves, but I'll have to agree that most people, especially visitors, may not be aware of the serious hazards. I think it's kind of funny that they used to charge people to drive in there a while ago. I heard something about a deal they had where if you could show proof of residency it was free. At least that would have been a little better. Well, (cough, cough, cough) the lava flow did look pretty darned cool out there, but next time I might just burn some incense and check out the HVO website instead. [
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