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+--- Thread: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! (/showthread.php?tid=4917)
Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Guest - 01-04-2009
Island Trust Realty was broken into last night.
Pics Here.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Kelena - 01-04-2009
I think it is safe to say that all hell has broken loose.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - JWFITZ - 01-04-2009
Please allow me the indulgence of asking yet again:
. . .I'm concerned that few understand what this mess means, or are adequately informed about of the magnitude of the issue. This is for a couple of reasons, but the primary one is that the crisis as it exists only exists in its full form at institutional levels. While the housing market is certainly an indicator of a larger problem, when one looks at the global indicators of large business on the macro economic scale--the scenario is nothing short of apocalyptic. Whether it is the demand for crude, or any of the various shipping indexes, or at sum amalgam of financial activity in the world we're looking at declines of 75% or more, comfortably, in the given amount of economic activity occurring in the world. These are very very very big numbers, utterly unprecedented, and to most, unfortunately, utterly unimaginable.
We, most of us, in spite of perhaps being conversant in the details, sense something needs to be done. And yes, it sure as hell does. There is no lack of bright ideas out there either, a lot of them coming from well connected folks soaking up what's left of endowment or grant money. There is a push here locally as well to get involved with local issues, and one can see the well intended efforts of of FoPF and others as examples of people participating in what they personally perceive as constructive good for the community.
The question I'd like to ask is this: In light of the world economy, in context of the economy of Hawaii and where it's going to end up--Do you really believe that personal civic involvement or government in general even remains relevant to our future?
More to the point--how valuable is local law enforcement?
I don't ask this in a snarky manner whatsoever. I don't ask this in a rhetorical context either. I'm asking directly--can we in the forthcoming environment expect any constructive aid, or services, or leadership from government entities in general? Personally, I think not. Even if the good will was there, and the process allowed for timely policy that reflected real needs in a timely manner--and there was actually any sort of funding to do anything with--I might be able to be persuaded otherwise. As it sits, with a massive budget shortfall in this state, and the Federal government committing half of GDP of next year already to bail out bad banks--not a chance.
Is anybody paying any attention to Hawaii's budget shortfall for 2009? If we put someone in jail, if they were actually apprehended, how long would they stay there?
The point of ask this question isn't to berate the attempts of those who might still seem some viability in the government sector. The point is rather to suggest, in fact insist, that the vast bulk of the work that is going to be required to keep society intact is going come directly from the hands of individuals--not from a government agency, and we may as well be prepared for that inevitability. That process of "keeping things running" is a large one, and there's much work to do. As far as I can see it, we really need to get started.
Obviously protecting our own, and our own property will necessarily be part of our forthcoming future.
This being said: please let's not make this topic a excuse to start yet another firearms shouting match. Let us agree that such tools are tools of last resort. Let us also make sure that those who would like to deny some access to those tools step up to the plate and provide effective alternatives to that very undesirable last resort.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Rob Tucker - 01-04-2009
Jay, If you truly think personal civic involvement is of no constructive purpose (quote: I think not). Then why bother posting what you do?
I can answer on my behalf that ONLY by personally becoming involved in civic issues can we expect any communal benefit from our government(s).
Punaweb moderator
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Jon - 01-04-2009
You can try to blame the government, the economy, society or whatever you think you can rationalize, but it comes down to one thing, someone has so little respect for the rights, property and feelings of others that they would kick in a door just to see if there was something they wanted to steal.
Rob, I don't see how getting involve in the community will help stop these kinds of things, unless you are willing to put yourself in harm's way and confront the perpetrators, and from what I have seen you have very few people around here that are.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Guest - 01-04-2009
Or when you do try and do something civic minded... you get kicked in the teeth with people telling you that your trying to "front" as a journalist, being rude, or possibly arrested for taking pictures of ADA compliance problems in the community.
Sucks that someone would try to assist a community and only get knocked for it.[}
]RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - oink - 01-04-2009
This is the point at which Naeole should be causing a scene demanding an adequate police response to the problem. If she can't accomplish it in chambers, she should be out in front of it drawing the news media, demanding that her constituents receive proper protection. Resources can be temporarily reallocated to knock the problem back to the background noise level. The district police commander should be getting his ass reamed about now for allowing the problem to continue. That’s how it works.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - JWFITZ - 01-04-2009
Hi Rob,
My point is that rather than sitting on a committee one may need to be sitting in a van down town Pahoa, personally watching the shops. It may be that this is the only effective means of getting results in the environment we face.
I post because I feel there are issues that need to be raised that government is negligent in facing up to, and I see that someone needs to do that. One of the issues that needs to be discussed is whether local government--or in this case--law enforcement, is even capable of dealing with the threats that the populace faces without proactive personal involvement from its citizens. My goal is to encourage first personal practical actions that positively impact the community--and bypass the pitfalls of "civic" involvement through "civic" mechanisms entirely.
It is the difference between complaining to the local "roads" committee about the condition of the roads on one's street, or picking up a shovel and fixing the road. I advocate the latter. Perhaps I've not been clear about that. As well, allow me to suggest that in many cases comfortably sitting on a committee can be a sugar-coated surrogate for what needs to really be done--which is to pick up the shovel and fill a few potholes.
It would seem that as things rest, obviously the local law enforcement agencies are simply incapable of dealing with the issues. What then is the next step?
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - Kelena - 01-04-2009
Agree completely with Oink on this, disagree with those who think civic involvment is pointless. We have reached a kind of breaking point here --literally, where homes and businesses are being threatened by a few at will. Hawaii's budgetary problems are not an issue for me, because the first task of the Government is to preserve a civil society (you may wish to rent "High Noon"). Everything else is secondary and so, as Oink says, resources can be temporarily reallocated to knock the problem back down to background noise level.
We may get knocked back on occasion and there is no question we will have to be persistent, consistent and united to get something done about the problem. I think we can prepare for a total collapse of society while still trying to stitch that society together. The only way to hold things together is to create better Government...otherwise it is every man for himself. It is fascinating to see what one man can do, but one man cannot create a public school system, or send a man to the moon. Together we can create a better Government. On Hawaii island its starts with raising hell with out elected representatives and those in charge of our neighborhoods (e.g., Hawaiian Paradise Park has a Board of Directors).
At some point, we can sue to demand that they due what they were elected to do. That would be a challenging suit indeed, but attention would be paid.
RE: Pahoa's Island Trust Realty Broken Into! - JWFITZ - 01-04-2009
Glen, if you haven't read MLK's "A Letter from Birmingham Jail" again lately--well, let me point out that one man who takes direct personal action that is outside of the "approved" mechanisms of civic involvement--or even legality--may be very effective in creating change. In a historical context, it may well even be necessary to it. This is what I suggest. You may well note that most every progressive movement in US history whether suffrage, or civil rights, or labor rights, have only come from those who understood that the political structure were unwilling or incapable of dealing with the matter at hand, and, well, took the matter into their own hands and frankly forced change down the throat of the governing institutions.