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+--- Thread: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me (/showthread.php?tid=10882)
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Jeffhale - 11-23-2012
quote:
Originally posted by coppercoin40
@ you should have a wet towel handy. Difficult to do but gripping the ends of the towel get it over the locked dog nose and mouth as much as possible and hold it tight. The object is to prevent the locked dogs breathing so it will let go.
well there's one I didn't know, and I'd bet that would do it for me, my dog, way better than beating the poop out of him!..
Once mine is locked,, it's no longer a violent issue, it's simply getting the beast to let go..
And misunderstanding my dog,, Maybe I described the negative too much just to drive in my point.
he's seriously a great dog, minus one level below great.. the lock.. might be for being the runt of the litter.. he loves kids,, I've introduced him to various situations with people and dogs. very responsive to my commands, sit's, stay,s plays fetch,, swims and even dives to chase a ball or stick that sinks. He's a very fun loving dog, I've raised him to be, playing with him every day for the first year of his life. the fellow who advised me to get this type,, he plays with his grandchildren whenever possible.. They love him too.
He's a problem for my wife though, not aggressive but, she refused to take control when a pup, and can't control him now either.. so now her problem is, play,, he'll jump and run, scratch and or cut her soft skin with his hard feet or dull claws.
.. ONLY, because he locked, he's confined to our back yard.. The question of putting him down, the potential danger is more of my own personal worst case scenario fear. My sense of personal responsibility.
When you raise a pet from puppy,, it's not just a walk in the park to put it down. I'm certain he would never attack a child. But I know plenty of dogs that would be far worse of a risk not Pitt breed, but shepherds, dobbies and other's that are also contained for the same reasons..
those who wouldn't chase a child just for play as mine may, but chase if loose because, they've entered their territory..
My dumb dog,, has proved to be disappointing in protecting his personal territory.. Which was one of the reasons we acquired him.. 2 telephone repairmen,, 1 A/C repair man, and 2 other worker types have been in my back yard without my presence and or my having to restrain or introduce them. He's has gone up to strangers in my back yard and licked em.. dumb dog hasn't even barked to warn em.. sniff and lick..
That's not a threating concern!!
But,, his only threat is, IF,, if he was out,, and a child was around,, he'd want to play with him/her..
Sometimes kids are fearful of any dog that'll chase after em.. and most any dog that's looking to play with a child if the child runs, they'll think it's play time, they'll chase after em. . It's that slight chance that fear might come into play and knowing that my dog locked 1 time, or 1 and 1/2 times that I'm concerned about..
Most kids know better, but it's the 1 time of 1000 that I'm guarding him against..
But, this is not about my dog, it's about a heated fight. and what quick action one could take short of having a gun.
The dogs in this topic are hunters, packed up and after weaker animals.
Mine doesn't even come close to that type of behavior.. no where near..
I'm simply WAY more responsible than the dopes who keep mongrels of that type..
So, lets try and keep this topic on helping others eh??
What besides the after fight help,, in my point,, what to do when confronted..
But,, heck yeah,, Wish I knew of the covering his nose deal, not once but twice!! great info..
However, that's not going to help solve this topic's problem..
I'm advising Mails's potential trouble because I'm sure it'll happen again. With an unresponsive police department, and believe me I know how poor Hawaii's police behave in neighborhood despites! Add the fact she had to demand the humane department take action.
Those dogs have no business outside of a well made fence or cage.. And not just those, as the big island has several like this for the main reason; pig hunting,, and 2nd worse type of "Owners" high crimes 'guard dogs'. tied up on ropes or chains all their life. moreover many people who OWN a dog, not pet; mean animals with irresponsible "Owners"
By experience,, dog's who are hardheaded and or hunters,, ya gotta get em where it hurts.
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Bullwinkle - 11-23-2012
Island dogs - the ones in question seem to be the pitts, rotties, dobies etc.... all "hard mouth" dogs bred for uses other than companionship. The gene pool here seems to lean to those kinds of dogs.
In comparison - travel through rural mexico and the dogs more like coyotes - smaller - rarely exceeding 40 lbs.... run if approached.
Socialization - why are dogs "not good with kids, cats, other male dogs" and oh by the way: even though he is bred for being big and nasty & pro active - we keep him intact, - think that could have anything to do with his attitude?. I hear more of these disclaimers lately than ever before. Unacceptable - means the dog is driving in the relationship - pure and simple.
What are the owners expressing by choosing these breeds any way? and do they have the experience (or physical ability - its about restraint not punishment) to manage the selected temperaments(how did the kids turn out? - grin)
Rule one in the dog world btw: Out means Out, Humans trump dogs always no exceptions, Intentionally touch a humans flesh with a tooth, while trying to intimidate - grounds for being removed from the gene pool.
A professional breeder having a self interest if they are producing anything but a protection dog.
Back to the BI and backyard breeding ---- If I had neighbors with nasty kids or dogs - I'd think long and hard about putting in my own fence....
It will be a while before all those Hard mouth genes breed down to a 40 lb soft mouth animal that they all originated from.
Terriers the worst imho - want try your hand - start with a Jack Russel - grin http://www.akc.org/breeds/terrier_group.cfm
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Canuck - 11-23-2012
So has there been any movements locally to make backyard breeding illegal? I know that in Oregon you have to be registered with the state to breed dogs and can only produce 3 litters a year. Why has something like that not been pursued here? Along with many other animal welfare laws that are staples even in other counties in Hawaii.
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Bullwinkle - 11-23-2012
Supply and demand pure and simple the uninformed want "b*d *ss" dog not realizing the effort it takes to manage a working dog.
The hunting guys have some amazingly smart whippets as well
I also think the true hunters get a bad rap, not my thing - neither are fox hunts - but both have cultural roots and lots of time and cash invested in their dogs, one doesnt abuse something they care about (the sane ones anyway)
Thats one of the things I like about Puna it is rural - rural areas tend to have dog issues -
My other "rural" place has snatelrakes, mountain lions and scorpions in season - choose your poison, we aint in kansas anymore Dorothy - grin
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - bluesboy - 11-23-2012
haha, he's a great dog, except for the small fact that he will lock down on his victim and not let go until you hit him in the balls with a baseball bat! yeah, that doesn't seem like an issue - NOT!
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Guest - 11-23-2012
A hate to see American Bull Terriers get such a bad rap, its not the dogs fault its the owners. They were bred specifically not to attack humans and were once considered the all American family dog, famous for protecting and watching over young American Children. Here is an expert from the wikipedia article on their temperament.
quote:
Temperament
Pit Bulls are generally friendly, even around strangers. As with any dog breed, proper training and socialization at an early age is a must. According to the UKC,"This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work." [7]
American Pit Bull Terriers will find some very inventive ways to entertain themselves that the owner may not like (often involving the garbage can, kitchen counter and cabinets, feather pillows, dirty laundry and various items of furniture). [8]
They are great dogs and they do not deserve the blame that some owners have brought on them. Solve the problem, don't just bandaid it. If we don't educate these owners and for example just kill all the pits, then they would get other dogs and make them aggressive. Control is not the solution, education is. Don't blame the dog for stupid humans, that would be stupid. Its Pit Bull Terriers now, but not to long ago it was the German Shepard, before that the Rottweilers, before that it was the Dobermans, next it will be the heelers they blame. Stop blaming the dogs, all of those dogs are some of the sweetest, most intelligent and capable breads. Its the people stupid.
Train and socialize your dog, its the only solution, teach others to do the same. Oh and self-defense in unexpected situations is good to, don't count on the law to protect you.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Bullwinkle - 11-23-2012
Agreed - nastiest animal I ever worked with was a dalmation - long on the tooth short on the brain. Cute and sweet - until the victim got within six inches - - a fear biter as most dogs that lash out are.
Problem with the pitts et all is that they are terriers and "toothy" and energetic by nature - its like having a .38 with a brain around.... They were bred to have the propensity and ability to inflict a lot of damage "hard mouth". Insurance folks and actuaries dont care about breeds - its the pay outs that matter to them.
Its all in the actuary tables, whatever the cause - so they exclude or legislate to protect their wallets from breeds that have caused large pay outs.....
Lets look at the other side of the scale - soft mouth animals - bred to return game birds without bruising them. Who would you take as an insurance risk? They all have their function .... unless you are out with Chaney - risks associated with soft mouth dogs lower every study.
You are right - its the owners ..... but here in hawaii there seems to be no accountability - so the insurance companies go after the breed.
I think them sweeties - even though pete came in through the double glazed slider after that puppy that auntie jane brought in - she should have known better - haven't we all heard that tale..... so has allstate
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Guest - 11-23-2012
Dalmatians have been pretty nasty in my experience as well, stupid and unsocial. I understand why people and insurance companies look at the issues as they do. No doubt people are getting pits when they don't have a use for them, or the patients and education to work with them. They are smart obedient hard working dogs, although not as smart as some of the other vilified breeds I mentioned. Pits are extremely obedient, very social dogs, you just need to work with them, like any dog. There is no argument about a dog like a Golden or other being a much softer safer choice when you don't want to work with your dog as is required with an energetic purposeful dog like a Pit. Train and socialize your dogs, its the only REAL solution.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Bullwinkle - 11-25-2012
Timely read - seems the issue isn't just here in Puna - even motels can be the site of an spun rottie..... like I said its like keeping a loaded .38 around. - Got to keep an eye on them - or train them never to touch a human "off command"
http://news.yahoo.com/dog-bite-sidelines-dirty-dozen-trumpeter-towns-014502347.html
"He said the dog's owner came out of the next room, and they were able to subdue it.
At Atlanta's Grady Hospital, he received 30 stitches in his groin. Towns, who has health insurance through his wife, Tracie, said he will be seeing a urologist this week.
The Dirty Dozen Brass Band formed in 1977, and is credited with creating the contemporary, funk"
Some attorney will do well with this - my guess is the motel (insurance co) the only one with deep pockets......
http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/the-breeds-most-likely-to-kill.html
Who Uses Punishment-Based Techniques?
"This study highlights the risk of dominance-based training, which has been made popular by television programs, books, and other punishment-based training advocates," says Herron.
For instance, Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan – the popular National Geographic Channel television series – routinely demonstrates alpha rolls, dominance downs and forced exposure, and has depicted Millan restraining dogs or performing physical corrections in order to take valued possessions away from them.
And like their previous bestselling books, Divine Canine by the Monks of New Skete focuses on correcting bad behaviors using choke chain and pinch collar corrections rather than proven non-aversive techniques.
These sources attribute undesirable or aggressive behavior in dogs to the dog’s striving to gain social dominance or to a lack of dominance displayed by the owner. Advocates of this theory therefore suggest owners establish an "alpha" or pack-leader role.
But veterinary behaviorists, Ph.D. behaviorists and the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) – through its position statement on The Use of Dominance Theory in Animal Behavior Modification – attribute undesirable behaviors to inadvertent rewarding of undesirable behaviors and lack of consistent rewarding of desirable behaviors.
Herron stresses, "Studies on canine aggression in the last decade have shown that canine aggression and other behavior problems are not a result of dominant behavior or the lack of the owner’s ‘alpha’ status, but rather a result of fear (self-defense) or underlying anxiety problems. Aversive techniques can elicit an aggressive response in dogs because they can increase the fear and arousal in the dog, especially in those that are already defensive."
Owners Often Fail to See the Connection
Herron points out that, interestingly, not all owners reporting an aggressive response to a particular aversive technique felt that the training method had a negative effect on their dog’s behavior. For instance, while 43% of owners who hit or kicked their dog reported aggression directed toward them as a result, only 35% of owners felt that the technique had a negative effect.
http://abrionline.org/article.php?id=254
RE: Pittbulls - It finally happened to me - Guest - 11-25-2012
Another way to have a mean dog is to let it live its whole life behind a fence or tied up, never letting it experience the world. This leads to a dog unable to understand and very fearful of the things it cannot understand because it never got a chance to. Imagine how social your own child would be if their entire life was constrained to a fenced in area or chain, first time they got out they would probably hurt themselves or someone else. There is a guy who walks around my neighborhood holding a baseball bat, I think he spent a lot of time chained or fenced up and is very fearful of the world. He should probably be restrained for the safety of society, he appears to be an aggressive bread.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul