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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - beepbeep - 04-27-2015
I worry about the Pandora's box beautiful and spiritual Hawaii might be opening.
Is it true that China is offering to arm some of the protestors? I hope this is just a scurrilous rumor, which it could be. China is a scary place that you might not want to end up a part of.
Of course, in WWII it is almost certain you would have ended up as a base for imperial Japan. Korea and parts of China can tell you how much fun that was. Barbarism.
Will reparations work out ok? What if the U.S. says they have done wrong to so many people; ok you deserve them, but get in the queue. We owe a ton of money already, none to spare right now, so it might be a long wait, they could say...
What if they say ok, we will pay you something but since everything we ever invested in you after statehood was for states-only you must pay us back for defense, roads, welfare, health care, disaster relief, education, mail service, utilities, add your own ten things to this list...
Hawai'i is also one of the states that gets more than it gives to the federal government. I think it is about $1.50 for every dollar but please don't quote me as I have to look it up. Don't know if the Hawaiian kingdom would raise taxes or cut services.
I'm just curious and it may just be none of my business! But the populations of Maui and Oahu are very different from those of Hawai'i and Kauai. Are their majorities on board with any of the kinds of government the protestors want for Hawai'i ?
Anyway, I'm not taking sides except for the telescopes. I so wish our mountains here had what Mauna Kea has to offer. Secrets of the universe...money, science role model for careers for keiki, relatively clean industry...
With the Hawaiian history of astronomy I feel like taking away telescopes is gouging Mauna Kea's eyes. Eyes that no one in the northern hemisphere gets to have. Throwing away a great gift. It breaks my heart.
You have my concern and my love, Hawai'i.
Pam in CA
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - bgiles - 04-27-2015
Signed, #6223
Sorry I'm late I was just foolin' round
I was late gettin' up and late getting down.
Reparations? Check out all the white crosses at Gettysburg, PA. Those were reparations paid forwar
Thank you young lady for your foresight in starting this petition.
bamboo2u
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Bullwinkle - 04-27-2015
Happy Birthday Hubble ...no atmosphere in space ....
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/19/photos/cnnphotos-hubble-space-telescope-25th-anniversary/index.html
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 04-27-2015
Pam,
"Is it true that China is offering to arm some of the protestors? I hope this is just a scurrilous rumor, which it could be. China is a scary place that you might not want to end up a part of."
This is a rumour that started a couple of months ago regarding the Hawaiian independence movement, nothing to do the TMT as far as I can see, and not something I take very seriously:
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/hawaiian-independence-movement-attracts-chinese-interest/
The National Astronomical Observatories of the Chinese Academy of Sciences is a TMT partner, albeit a relatively minor one. China is learning things that many of the western countries have forgotten, and that's an investment in fundamental science is a good thing for a country in the long term. You'll end up with motivated and well-educated workforce. A foothold for them in international astronomy is important because they will have access to facilities and knowledge they do not yet have, and they have no sites equivalent to places like Mauna Kea or some of the observatory sites in Chile.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 04-27-2015
Opihikao,
"Oh, and (waving) Mr. Tom, I look forward to your tour of your facility and it would be an honor to bring my mo'opuna (three (3)) with me, if allowed. Mahalo, Sir."
We'll do the tour. Not sure when, it depends what you want to do (daytime tour or stick around 'til sunset). The former we can do this summer, the latter best done October/November. It'll be a pleasure and honour to meet you, your family and just talk. You and I will be able to talk about what Mauna Kea means to both of us.
Tom
PS. Only thing I can't do is take anyone under-16 into the observatory. Safety rules, I'm afraid. Sorry.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 04-27-2015
I wrote back on 17th April:
"If anyone knows how to contact Mailani, let me know. I'll be happy to provide a tour of the the summit area, let her take part in our operations and even control the telescope for a while. Someone this bright and initiative deserves a reward."
Mailani Neal has been on a tour of the Kecks, will get a tour of the CFHT and once I can organise stuff will get another tour of UKIRT and hopefully one or two other telescopes.
This would not have happened even if she started a pro-TMT petition just saying support the TMT. Her petition was more than that. It was a well-worded and argued essay about the TMT and why it should be built.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/wesupporttmt.html
When you read that and then read some of the completely bizarre ramblings and gibberish some have posted here, I hope you agree she has deserved these trips. An 18-year-old student who understands what astronomy is all about and doesn't go on about a silent killer, spying on Iranian rockets, draining Lake Waiau, deflecting hurricanes or whatever completely made up balderdash some might post here. She has an ambition in life and is smart enough to do whatever she chooses. If it's astronomy or science, I know she'll make a success of it, but whatever she chooses she has made quite an impression on the astrophysicists on MK.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Guest - 04-28-2015
Thank you Opihikao, going to go enjoy the great outdoors the rest of this beautiful day.
Growing up here, I have grown up to respect Maunakea and her Hawaiian people. I still believe in Maunakea, she does help prevent large storms, she does offer life and happiness to many.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 04-28-2015
Aloha mai, gypsy, aloha kakahiaka to all.
gypsy, in defending Mauna Kea (Mauna a Wakea), we must realize that Mauna Kea can take care of "herself/himself". Our kuleana is to make certain promises made are kept. Many promises have been broken in the past. Absolutely.
The current worldwide attention with regard to the TMT, the onus is on the various entities (ie. BNLR/DLNR, UH, OHA, TMT & other telescopes, etc.) to make good on past promises, in order to move forward. The current lease negotiations will be crucial to addressing concerns of all parties. Make your concerns known to these entities in writing, as it will enable you to make a difference in this debate.
I fear the division of this Punaweb ohana has grown deeper with this issue, and we cannot allow our community to fall victim to the rhetoric. Mr. Tom is not a "King", he is a man, as you are. He makes contributions to our scientific field, as you make contributions to our community.
Please, I ask for your understanding and patience with all of our Punaweb ohana in these kinds of volatile threads. Lord knows it is most difficult on occasion, as our culture is not part of other's upbringing, thus, results in misunderstandings. We cannot expect others to understand. Some do, and some will never, so result to discounting our culture. Mr. Tom is not one I see who disrespects us as kanaka maoli, he is a scientist. Others here are blatantly disrespectful, and my choice is to ignore ignorance.
We all have a say in this matter, and must be active in the process of making sure Mauna Kea is indeed protected. TMT promises to protect Mauna Kea. The current leases clearly provide those conditions. Submit written response, gypsy, it helps to write it down to someone who is making decisions, instead of here on Punaweb. We can't resolve anything here, but we all can sure make a difference by submitting testimony.
My aloha to your ohana, and to all. Breathe, and IMUA KAKOU.
JMO.
ETA: typo; need more coffee.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - knieft - 04-28-2015
Don't fall for the meta-troll, Tom.
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 04-28-2015
Yet another anti-TMT person threatening violence. By the way, gypsy69, you do talk gibberish. Maybe it's not your fault but you can't fault anyone for pointing that out.
Thank you again, opihikao, for supporting the telescope.
ETA: typo!