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+--- Thread: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! (/showthread.php?tid=16006)
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RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - VancouverIslander - 05-31-2015
I listened to the entire video, but I am not swayed toward opposition to TMT. It is a beautiful speech, but I find that it contains logical fallacies (like TMT will stop the rivers from flowing?????) Nobody is 'blowing up the mauna', a spiritual connection to the universe will not explain dark matter, black holes, cosmic background radiation or the life cycle of stars. The speech was an impassioned plea, but the rationale was lacking.
Just call me Mike
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - bluesboy - 05-31-2015
very likely many mountains in the hawaiian chain were as tall, or taller than mauna kea. mauna kea will eventually erode into the ocean, and another will take it's place.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - PunaMauka2 - 05-31-2015
i suppose there has long been a somewhat universal tendency to correlate an actual physically elevated position with elevated status, variously symbolizing a hierarchy of importance anywhere from spiritual to political in nature.
examples abound - relative position of flags on a pole, religious symbolism and architecture, prostrating oneself in the presence of royalty ...even as anecdotally evidenced right here on Punaweb today by special bloodlines traced directly to the highest of royalty - quote "(our ohana is of Keopuolani, who King Kamehameha I could only approach on his knees. Her father was Kîwala'o, King of Hawai'i island. Just saying)".
i'm sure any especially vaulted spiritual status attributed to Mauna Kea also relates in part to it's physical elevation, which naturally has some awe-inspiring effect. i'd imagine the rather epic nature of journeying many miles by foot to such a harsh physical environment above the clouds would invoke a profound sense of the divinely sacred, especially for our predecessors who actually lived in a subsistence society strictly inhabited by gods and goddesses free from the trappings of modern science, such as journeying atop Mauna Kea today by private motor vehicle with emergency services and modern medical care backup available.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - opihikao - 05-31-2015
And... (PM2, since you quoted my lineage)?
Your point? (God help me, but your interpretation leaves room for improvement, albeit you are on "ignore"....somewhat. You're one of those who will never "get it". A'ole, but, please prove me wrong within this lifetime. lol.)
No "flag position" necessary, for the record. It is Kupuna, and our charge, period. Aloha aina, malama aina, etc. What, you got your piece of it ("Paradise"), so deal with it? Right...(rolling my eyes, again).
I leave the rest of it to my Kupuna. Wish they would teach me how "not to respond" when riled. Silence speaks volumes. However, the continued racial crap that inhibits progress, warrants countering.
Amazing, the convoluted swaying of statements made like above. Do not doubt that I am very proud of my lineage. As the King himself could not approach except on his knees, my Kupuna, for you to discount that, the only response is:
I hope Tutu Pele visits you, not once, but twice, or thrice.
Back to ignore, but you really do push my freaking buttons, and I know that's what you want to do. You win. [
] With due respect, if any is left. However, you can really be an ass, of sorts. SMFH.JMFO.
ETA: typo; "if" not "is".
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - PunaMauka2 - 05-31-2015
i think you may be taking things here a little too personal.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - opihikao - 05-31-2015
quote:It is personal. Extremely. You will never "get it".
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
i think you may be taking things here a little too personal.
JMO.
P.S. I will say, your attempt at valid questions is admirable. That's why I respond in kind. In the old days, you would not be allowed to walk in my shadow. At the very least, I'm listening to your position on all things, albeit freaking, damn, difficult.
JMFO, again.
P.S.S. The only reason I respond is due to your intelligence. Otherwise, a'ole.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - Guest - 06-01-2015
No culture has a monopoly on the sacred, not even Hawaiian culture. Some people believe that building the largest and most technologically advanced telescope in human history on Maunakea is a sacred act that is no less protected than going there to make a pile of stones and chant. Supporters of TMT also have rights to pursue their vision of the sacred as they see it. Maunakea, as a truely sacred space, stands outside human definitions and boundaries in space and time. There is room there for many approaches to the sacred to co-exist in harmony. To treat this as a winner-take-all political contest is to trample like cattle what is claimed as being protected.
---------------------------
You can't fix Samsara.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - MarkP - 06-01-2015
The problem I see is that the protesters feel they have "dibs" on the mountain and should therefor be able to tell others to go f--- themselves. A certain part of the fun is to be had by thwarting others.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - PunaMauka2 - 06-01-2015
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Do not doubt that I am very proud of my lineage. As the King himself could not approach except on his knees, my Kupuna,...
...In the old days, you would not be allowed to walk in my shadow. At the very least, I'm listening to your position on all things, albeit freaking, damn, difficult.
i feel i should ask, are you serious by this statement?
and if so, aren't you assuming where i genetically rank in the battle of the royal bloodlines 2015?
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - VancouverIslander - 06-02-2015
quote:
Originally posted by imagtek
No culture has a monopoly on the sacred, not even Hawaiian culture. Some people believe that building the largest and most technologically advanced telescope in human history on Maunakea is a sacred act that is no less protected than going there to make a pile of stones and chant. Supporters of TMT also have rights to pursue their vision of the sacred as they see it. Maunakea, as a truely sacred space, stands outside human definitions and boundaries in space and time. There is room there for many approaches to the sacred to co-exist in harmony. To treat this as a winner-take-all political contest is to trample like cattle what is claimed as being protected.
Perhaps not, imagtek, but shouldn't the Hawaiian culture receive some special consideration in light of it being the one that originated here and for whom Mauna Kea may hold special significance, whereas in discussions of Jerusalem Hawaiian culture would not be a stake holder.
I'm still searching to find the complete argument explained in a straightforward way that describes why Hawaiians believe TMT should not be built. I am very happy to listen and consider these points as well as learn what I can in the process. Currently, however, it appears (in my ignorance?) that protestors are attempting to leverage blockading TMT in order to achieve other goals.
Just call me Mike