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+--- Thread: The Great Spirit (/showthread.php?tid=16183)
RE: The Great Spirit - Thunderfoot - 09-21-2015
Punatic007 - We do not feel like victims, but do scratch our heads at how the Europeans ran from religious persecution and over taxation and wanted a new life and freedom, so they came to our land and took it, killing us and many of themselves to be free. That is war, there are winners and the ones left that are oppressed under their rule if they have no where else to go. We had no where to get asylum, and would not have dreamt of leaving our lands that we have been care taking for thousands and thousands, and thousands of years. We actually helped the newcomers grow food because they were starving. Then the make up Thanksgiving as a way to make themselves feel better. It never happened by the way. We tried to help them because we felt everyone thought like we did and that one aspect of our thinking involves a concept that we are related to all things. That is we are brothers and sisters to all people, plants, animals, rocks, etc.. We are all one, so of course we were going to help our new brothers and sisters. Unfortunately these newcomers had manifest destiny as their thinking and that was the end of life as we knew it. Then add small pox and other diseases that wiped us out and the fact that we were outnumbered, and that spelled disaster for my culture. The kicker for us is now the newcomers do not want to be free anymore. They want to make things like the Patriot act which takes away your freedoms under the guise of public safety. And Americans sit back in their luxuries and are letting it happen. So we see a bunch of dummies, that makes it hard to feel like a victim. Plus we do not have such a concept, like "victim". We do not see things in good or bad either. There is a way to do something where it works, and then a way to do something that doesn't work. Our self destructive behaviors comes from frustration about being oppressed and having no relief in sight. All we can do is wait for the newcomers to self-destruct because they will. Yes we have the highest suicide rate of any race and things like that. Some of it is genetic, we are susceptible to alcohol more than other races. There are many factors involved in why one culture is more self destructive than another. But one of the main factors is they had the ability for asylum where we did not. And as far as this government supporting us, that is far from the truth. Sure they give lip service and we do win little legal battles here and there, but make no mistake, the government is still raping us. The Dann sisters of the Shoshone are one example of how the government will still do dirty things to get what they want. They put money in a bank account claiming the Shoshone sold some land when they did not. So, the government went out there and confiscated 259 horses and cattle. That isn't assisting anyone. This kind of thing happens all the time with my people. So, the tyranny hasn't stopped, just got quiet. The government still hunts down and kills or jails our holy people. We have told the newcomers that what is happening to us will eventually happen to them. They will storm into your homes next. And now it is happening. The National Guard was assembled to force vaccinate everyone on this island under a new Federal Law that allows mandatory vaccination of citizens without exemption and if you did not comply you were going to be quarantined at your own expense. County Council got wind of it and many people testified against it, including myself, and we got it stopped on the county level, but the Feds still have it as Law. We need to be aware of what sneaky things the government is still doing and try to prevent more loss of our rights. Right now there is the Modernization Food Act of 2009 where it will require everyone who grows any food at all to register it with the government. Get ready to be taxed for growing your own food people. Why else would they make such a Law ? This is what we should be focused on, the future. An attorney once told me that you do have any rights unless you know about them, and you will loose them if you do not exercise them.
And I do not mind you asking me the question, I was never one to care about what is politically correct
I hope I answered your question, and yes I know I spoke of much more than just what you asked, couldn't help myself.pahoated - Yes the Bible has done much damage to many cultures. But there was another belief system besides Hebrew. there was Zoroasterianism which is about 5,000 years old and originated in Persia. The Christian beliefs were a combination of those two practices and a little Paganism because you cannot create a new religion without incorporating familiar things so people will accept it. That is why Pan, the Greek god of fertility had to fall into hell and become a devil. In Native American culture we do not have a religion, we have a way of life that is very very very old. So yes Christianity has many lies in it. That is why people are turning away from it and are searching for truth. Problem is many are picking and choosing what they like from various belief systems and creating their own personal belief. My elders warned me that will lead to your spirit being confused and that is not good. I suggest people look at the fruit of what each pursuit offers and ask yourself if that is the fruit you want. For example, if you pursue Buddhism, there are 8 places to go to choose from in that belief system alone. In my culture we have the Great Dreamtime, a place of no time and your reminder is when you are asleep, you do not know what time it is
So, research what you want and go for it. Research does not mean dabble either. You can also find someone knowledgable such things and talk to them about it. I myself completed a 25 year apprenticeship in my culture to be what is called a Meata. The medicine person is a 15 year apprenticeship and is called the green road. I went another for the 25 year apprenticeship of the turquoise road. So, I might know how to fix my truck, but spirituality is my forte. I was taught not only about my culture but about many cultures/beliefs and other things. I learned more in one moth in that apprenticeship than I ever did in all 4 years of college. It was difficult, but I would do it all over again to know what I know, including get rammed by a buffalo,LOL... Yes, I was Love taped by a buffalo once, she wasn't trying to hurt me, just wanted me away from food bowl and she didn't realize how much bigger she was than me. She was as surprised as I was, LOL...... Anyway, way more info than you wanted
opihikao - No I was NOT offended Hun, thought you were trying to spread the Love, that is a good thing. I just wanted to share some of my education with people because that is why I learned it, so I could share it. Knowledge is a gift and only remains a gift if you pass it on the way it was passed to you
HugsRE: The Great Spirit - Punatic007 - 09-21-2015
quote:_____________________________________________________________________
Punatic007 - We do not feel like victims, but do scratch our heads at how the Europeans ran from religious persecution and over taxation and wanted a new life and freedom, so they came to our land and took it, killing us and many of themselves to be free. That is war, there are winners and the ones left that are oppressed under their rule if they have no where else to go.
Thanks for your response thunderfoot. This is something I ponder: was it war or was it an influx of immigrants with irreconcilable differences with the native population? I do know that many settlers came without adequate warning of the Indian clashes, they had intentions of living in peace, were told there was enough space, yet were brutally attacked repeatedly by Indians. I learned this from the memoirs of my ggggggrandmother, now to be found in the library of congress.
There are good and bad in every people, correct? Do you think all the Europeans were with malicious intent and actions? Or were the masses innocent?
I hear ya about the dumbing down of America, Zionist extremists now own our media. He who controls the media controls the narrative, controls the country. They were slick and have a history of underhanded take overs on a large scale, this is not the first country they have manipulated and deceived.
All of human history is filled with inequities, greatness and everything inbetween.
My favorite attitude is held by the displaced nomadic hilltribe peoples of SE Asia, all they want are the opportunities to change with the rest of the world, as it changes continually. When I asked a chief if they held grudges for the long list of inequities suffered, he was briefly offended I would ask such a question. Said "there's absolutely nothing productive about blaming or holding grudges about the past, instead we move forward".
RE: The Great Spirit - Rob Tucker - 09-21-2015
Okay boys, Bring it back to Hawaii or it will go away.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
RE: The Great Spirit - Thunderfoot - 09-21-2015
I was going to respond to Punatic but now just want to respond to Rob. Wow, Rob, in our defense the topic was the Great Spirit and you allowed 7 pages of discussion about it. No one was not getting along if you read it. we were all actually enjoying the banter, and I am not a boy
. I am a woman. Sorry if my speaking up ruffles feathers, just saying none of us thought we were fighting. I thought we were having an intelligent discussion. I very rarely chime in here in this forum because of I rarely see anything I want to comment on, and when I finally do, you misunderstand the conversation and threaten to shut down the thread. This topic does relate to Hawaii because Native Americans first arrived on Molokai long before the missionaries in 1812. So, Native American culture is very relevant to Hawaii, especially since many of our laws apply to Hawaiians. So, the concept of the Great Spirit is relevant to Hawaii because here we are talking about, isn't that proof enough it is related to Hawaii ?
RE: The Great Spirit - MarkP - 09-21-2015
Rob, you get dumped on all the time without deserving it, like right now. I want you to know that many of us appreciate what you do.
RE: The Great Spirit - Kapoho Joe - 09-21-2015
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderfoot
I was going to respond to Punatic but now just want to respond to Rob. Wow, Rob, in our defense the topic was the Great Spirit and you allowed 7 pages of discussion about it. No one was not getting along if you read it. we were all actually enjoying the banter, and I am not a boy
Would you like some cheese for your whine sir?
RE: The Great Spirit - Rob Tucker - 09-21-2015
Hey, I asked them to bring it back to Hawaii and they did.
RE: The Great Spirit - dakine - 09-21-2015
Native Americans first arrived on Molokai long before the missionaries...
Wow, do you have a reference you could point to? I know you've said yours is a tradition that relies on verbal verses written communication, and the Hawaiians did/do as well, but I'd love to know more. Truly, thank you for all you've shared so far, but gee, any more you might have to share with regards an American Indian / Hawaiian connection going back to a time before the Europeans and their descendants showed up would be great. Mahalo
RE: The Great Spirit - Stizz - 09-21-2015
I appreciate the positivity intended by this thread, and I will leave it at that.
RE: The Great Spirit - Frank - 09-21-2015
i vote..."Pretty good discussion"