+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway (/showthread.php?tid=19891)
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - SBH - 07-07-2018
Who needs Roundup? We have Madame Pele in lower Puna knocking down weeds and eradicating all the coqui frogs and fire ants too. If the lava doesn’t kill the weeds the sulphur dioxide will.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-07-2018
health food/ organic food mafia. Yeah sounds crazy but in this world I cannot rule it out.
Specifically, it’s the anti-GMO people. They unsuccessfully tried to block GMO technology from being approved in food products, so now they are attempting it through the back door. The largest and most profitable use of GMO crops are Monsanto’s Roundup Ready varieties, so they are the biggest target:
* In the 1990’s Monsanto bought out one of the leading companies in GMO development, Calgene
* Once acquired, Monsanto changed the focus of their research from tomatoes that would ship with good flavor (Calgene’s Flavr Saver was the first FDA approved GMO food) to corn and soybean varieties that could survive exposure to Roundup
* If Roundup is outlawed by governments or courts, the majority of ongoing GMO Roundup Ready development by Monsanto/Bayer will become pointless (if Roundup is illegal, there’s no reason to genetically modify corn, soybeans, etc, to survive Roundup exposure)
* If that is accomplished, anti-GMO activists will then turn their attention to the smaller less profitable GMO varieties and crops. If they can stop production of most GMO corn, it should be easy to convince people the ban was due to nonspecific, generic dangers inherent in all GMO food products, and continue their crusade from there.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - geochem - 07-07-2018
MBB and TomK - you present, albeit unintentionally, the intellectual dishonesty of the entire anti chemical crowd:
TomK you claim that the chemical companies don't do the necessary research - I know for a fact that that isn't true: a fellow chemistry grad student, that I trained with, spent her career conducting and managing research on ag chemicals - including roundup and its varied chemical breakdown products.
MBB: you on the other hand, claim that all the research conducted by the chemical companies (oh, but TomK just said that research wasn't done...) is biased and can't be trusted - and, any government funded research is likewise compromised and bought off...
So, on that basis, whatever research was (or wasn't) done, as long as it doesn't find an adverse effect, is irrelevant to the "studied opinion" of the anti-roundup/anti-Monsanto crowd. (and please don't use the term demonize in reference to those of us who disagree with with the engineered paranoia over ag chemicals - if anyone is demonizing anyone it's the anti-ag, anti-Monsanto crowd who is doing the demonizing...
And I am unimpressed by third, and first, world politicians that are expressing interest in banning roundup - they are no less (and arguably more) susceptible to the manufactured social media hysteria that has been generated about the alleged hazards of roundup (and GMOs and electromagnetic radiation (remember that one?), and etc. etc....) than the rest of the science/technology illiterates in our general population. What percentage of those politicians have science/technology/math training or could even read and understand the research that has been published - or, worse yet, would even take the trouble to attempt to understand that research?
As far as EW is concerned, he's welcome to live in his utopian fantasy world where he grows his own (completely organic) food in his victory garden free of any man-made pesticides - I wish him well with that... as long as he doesn't require that I do the same. I grew up in a not very economically advantaged community where many had their own gardens - and there were a lot of malnourished kids among my classmates and a lot absenteeism due to wintertime illnesses (in my opinion caused by that malnourishment). That utopian, once upon a time history looks great from distance - it didn't look or feel so good when you were experiencing it.
And no, I don't work for Monsanto, have never worked for Monsanto or any related manufacturing business nor has my research work ever been funded by those industries. I take my guidance from Bruce Ames - who developed our modern testing methods on chemicals' toxicity and whose work on natural and man-made toxins is among the most widely respected and most widely cited research in the world.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - ElysianWort - 07-07-2018
Very interesting. I appreciate you people bringing up thoughtful and valid points in this discussion, as I was anticipating, finally, on pages 6 & 7 of this thread. Not that all of it was rubbish on the first few pages, but I think you know what I mean.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-07-2018
Here's a little more background about the first genetically modified food crop, the Flavr Saver tomato. It also includes the connection between Monsanto, Roundup, GMO crops, and nascent opposition to GMO foods.
The initial response for the Flavr Saver from the media and public was positive - - but then came the inevitable devil's advocate backlash from a few opponents with arguments to ban them because "better safe than sorry" and "they might be toxic."
Video:
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/booming/you-call-that-a-tomato.html
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - ElysianWort - 07-07-2018
And Geochem, thanks, I think you have inspired the name of my farm. I was going with something "shire" like SpringShire but wasn't set on it.
I think it's now officially The Utopian-Shire or The Utopian-Fantasy-Farm.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - MarkP - 07-07-2018
The comparison of the self-evident addictiveness of oxycodone with the alleged cancer causing nature of glyphosate is a non-starter for anyone with any research chops and ethics where science is concerned.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - Midnight Rambler - 07-07-2018
HOTPE: If Roundup is outlawed by governments or courts, the majority of ongoing GMO Roundup Ready development by Monsanto/Bayer will become pointless (if Roundup is illegal, there’s no reason to genetically modify corn, soybeans, etc, to survive Roundup exposure)
Actually, this part isn't really true. They'll just develop GMO varieties that are resistant to other, more-toxic herbicides. And that will be hugely profitable because the patents on Roundup Ready corn have already expired, and the one on RR soy and cotton will expire in a couple of years. They're already working on versions resistant to 2,4-D (which the anti-GMO crowd likes to refer to as "Agent Orange", even though it's not what caused the toxicity in Agent Orange), because of resistance to glyphosate that's developed among weeds because of overuse.
* If that is accomplished, anti-GMO activists will then turn their attention to the smaller less profitable GMO varieties and crops. If they can stop production of most GMO corn, it should be easy to convince people the ban was due to nonspecific, generic dangers inherent in all GMO food products, and continue their crusade from there.
Heck, they're already doing this. Even with the damn papaya for pete's sake, which saved the Puna papaya industry and where the patent is held by UH, not Monsanto.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - TomK - 07-07-2018
Geochem,
"TomK you claim that the chemical companies don't do the necessary research - I know for a fact that that isn't true: a fellow chemistry grad student, that I trained with, spent her career conducting and managing research on ag chemicals - including roundup and its varied chemical breakdown products."
I wasn't clear enough and my wording was poor (hey, I underwent an invasive medical procedure earlier in the day and probably hadn't recovered from the sedative!). I wasn't talking about chemical companies (unless you want to include drug manufactures in that category). I was referring to many medical studies that rely on so few examples that statistically, they are completely useless, and wouldn't pass peer review in any decent scientific journal.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - geochem - 07-08-2018
Fair enough, TomK. I agree, epi studies are hugely expensive and tremendously difficult to interpret due to the multitude of lifestyle/exposure corrections that need to be made. Which makes fertile ground for chemo-phobe zealots that inhabit the rantosphere. Unfortunately, our political so-called leaders either don't know how to manage, or are actively exploiting, the mob-rule mentality - which doesn't bode well for the coming generations.
And I hope your invasive procedure wasn't too invasive and that it had a positive outcome...