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+--- Thread: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles (/showthread.php?tid=20200)
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - randomq - 09-27-2018
quote:
Originally posted by riversnout
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
Did the Tahitians acquire Hawaii legally from the original Hawaiians? Did Kamehameha legally acquire all of the islands from the other Kings?
Would a war have been more valid in your eyes than a nearly bloodless coup?
Did the Tahitians sign the Geneva and Hague conventions?
I get your point. I hope you get mine as well. But international law is kind of a farce, especially when it comes to superpowers. Even with all the evidence in the world, who is going to enforce a judgement on the US? It's a pipe dream.
Nevermind most Hawaiians (people who live in Hawaii) don't want to live under a constitutional monarchy.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - riversnout - 09-27-2018
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
I get your point. I hope you get mine as well. But international law is kind of a farce, especially when it comes to superpowers. Even with all the evidence in the world, who is going to enforce a judgement on the US? It's a pipe dream.
Of course I see your point. Might makes right. Always been that way, always will. The empire wants the islands, so the empire gets the islands. That doesn't mean that we can't TRY to do the right thing. Job 1 is admitting what is right and what is wrong. Job 2 is doing something about it unless we don't give a **** and all we want out of life is a six pack and cable TV.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - PunaBaer - 09-27-2018
"Did the Tahitians sign the Geneva and Hague conventions?"
No and neither had the US at the time. The overthrow happened in 1893 and Liliuokalnai abdicated in 1895 while the Hague Convention was in 1899 and 1907 and the Geneva Convention was in 1929.
"Therefore, by virtue of this executive agreement, the President, and his successors in office, remain legally bound to restore the Hawaiian Kingdom government and to return the executive power to Hawai`i’s chief executive."
The President can not make treaties unilaterally, they must be ratified by Congress or they are void. Congress never ratified so not valid.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - randomq - 09-27-2018
quote:
Originally posted by riversnout
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Yes, but...
Liliuokalani signed a formal abdication in 1895 but continued to appeal to U.S. President Grover Cleveland for reinstatement, without success. The United States annexed Hawaii in 1898.
So according to this logic, if terrorists somehow kidnap the President of the United States and have him sign an abdication of the Republic of the United States and recognizes Al Qaeda as the lawful government in order to save the lives of some of his countrymen, the United States of America ceases to exist?
If the rest of the military, government and citizens allow it to, yes. Facts on the ground beat lofty ideals on paper every time, unfortunately.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - randomq - 09-27-2018
quote:
Originally posted by riversnout
Job 2 is doing something about it unless we don't give a **** and all we want out of life is a six pack and cable TV.
I agree with you here. But the Hawaiian Kingdom isn't coming back, so why not focus on realistic goals at the local and state levels? What's more important, the ali'i in charge or the end results? Ultimately, regardless of who is in charge, what changes are you seeking?
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - kalakoa - 09-27-2018
why not focus on realistic goals at the local and state levels?
Hey, I know! We could make marijuana the lowest priority for law enforcement!
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - randomq - 09-27-2018
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
why not focus on realistic goals at the local and state levels?
Hey, I know! We could make marijuana the lowest priority for law enforcement!
And you think that would be any different under a king or queen?
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - leilanidude - 09-27-2018
Liliuokalani signed a formal abdication in 1895 but continued to appeal to U.S. President Grover Cleveland for reinstatement, without success.
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I guess she realized..its good to be the queen...
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - PaulW - 09-27-2018
I haven't heard anyone explain what the desired outcome is here. Independence for Hawaii? Great! But what if a majority of the people living here don't want that, what then? Mass expulsions?
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - leilanidude - 09-27-2018
I haven't heard anyone explain what the desired outcome is here. Independence for Hawaii? Great! But what if a majority of the people living here don't want that, what then? Mass expulsions?
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"They" do not want a vote on this. They know they would lose.