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+--- Thread: Attention!!! (/showthread.php?tid=9528)
RE: Attention!!! - PaulW - 12-02-2011
"What if it is finally realized that war and military spending is always destructive to the economy?"
Like in WWII?
"What if Obama has no intention of leaving Iraq?"
I think the rapid removal of troops there is a good indication of his intentions.
"...our foreign policy has nothing to do with national security, that it never changes from one administration to the next?"
He and I must read different newspapers.
So Ron Paul wants to withdraw all US troops from everywhere? I bet the Chinese and Russians would like that.
I predict he'll run as an Independent and his small share of the vote will be enough to keep the Republicans out.
No wonder some of the Occupy people are behind him.
I think he has a lot of good points, despite being a hypocrite by voting for $400M in earmarks.
RE: Attention!!! - Guest - 12-02-2011
Why is he a hypocrite for securing money for his district that they payed out in Taxes? Until the system is fixed, there is nothing wrong with trying to get your constituents money back. A slow swap of troops for mercenaries is not a withdrawal, neither is an embassy the size of vatican city with accommodations for 15 thousand americans.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/08/10/mercenaries-in-iraq-to-take-over-soldiers-jobs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_Baghdad
Obama, the anti-war candidate started operations in Libya, Yeman, Pakistan, and somalia. He also continued operations in iraq and afghanistan, now he is setting up for war with Iran.
The Keynesian economic fallacy that war is good for the economy is simply not true, neither are hurricanes good for the economy. Peoples living standards during WWII were still as bad as the rest of the depression, the economy did not boom till 10 million troops came home and government spending was cut by 60%. Your starting to sound like Paul Krugman who believes the thing we need to shake this recession is an alien invasion.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html
Wealth can only be built from real work, destroying things and then fixing them, or moving a pile of stones from one side of the road and back again accomplishes nothing and does not create wealth. Are you really proposing that the loss of life in the thousands and millions, not to mention the destruction of cities and farms is a viable strategy for economic growth? There are almost 400 thousand soldiers overseas, the average soldiers salary is 50 thousand dollars, just imagine if they spent that money here, instead of Germany and Japan. Why should we pay to subsidize Germanys welfare state? How is spending Trillions of non existent tax dollars overseas good for the economy? WWII cost 60 million lives and 20 Trillion dollars(adjusted for inflation), Britain only just finished paying off their war debt in 2006, our debt after WWII was 100% of our GDP. You think that was good for the economy? Please.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Attention!!! - rusty h - 12-02-2011
Agree afwjam. peace
RE: Attention!!! - PaulW - 12-02-2011
In case you've never been to the Vatican City, it is very small - 110 acres. Wikipedia points to an article that is more than 5 years old and says the embassy is less (104 acres) than the size of Vatican City. But anyway, don't let facts get in the way of a strongly held belief.
Going to war should not be done for economic reasons, but it does have economic effects. Some good, most bad. America wallowed in the Great Depression for 12 years before WWII started. Are you sure it was just a coincidence.
"The common view among economic historians is that the Great Depression ended with the advent of World War II."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#World_War_II_and_recovery
The USA tried to stay isolationist then too, as Ron Paul would have us do again, and what did it lead to? Bombs on Honolulu.
Best to fight the fights where they start. I would rather have the extremists fighting well-trained and well-equipped US soldiers over there than unequipped US civilians (see: 9/11) over here.
RE: Attention!!! - PaulW - 12-02-2011
Voting for earmarks isn't hypocritical? So Ron Paul thinks earmarks are good but only as long as they benefit his chances of re-election? Please. It's okay to disagree with your hero.
RE: Attention!!! - Guest - 12-02-2011
No he is against earmarks, but the earmark process exists, so he uses it to get his constituents tax dollars back.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Attention!!! - Guest - 12-02-2011
Isolationism does not equal non-interventionism. Either way, Paul is not against going to war, he is just against un-constitutional, un-declared, un-winnable wars. WWII though nothing we should hope to be involved and a very unpleasant necessity was the last constitutional war we fought, it was also the last war we won. Coincidence? Of course we probably could have avoided WWII if our politicians weren't so crazy after WWI.
Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.
Thomas Jefferson
I am not denying there are economic implications to war, we took over most of Europe's industry as theirs was destroyed. The net benefit is negative both economically and socially, therefore it should never be looked at in positive light. 9/11 could have been avoided if we listened to Paul, he did predict it well before it happened, in 1998:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hJTisovvjc
We also could have avoided the depression we are in, if we listened to Paul. He predicted the housing bubble, scary once you hear his other predictions, he predicted OWS as well. They are all coming true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5nGCpzel6o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtdFtSAmLw
The embassy in Iraq is expanding as we speak.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/16/us-embassy-iraq-state-department-plan_n_965945.html
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Attention!!! - PaulW - 12-02-2011
"9/11 could have been avoided if we listened to Paul, he did predict it well before it happened, in 1998:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hJTisovvjc"
All he says is:
"We're liable to have more attacks on us by terrorists"
This is in relation to a bombing of Iraq, a country which had *nothing* to do with 9/11.
That is a very very broad definiton of the word "predict".
Could people on this forum please at least watch the videos they recommend before posting them? Thanks.
"Isolationism does not equal non-interventionism"
I'm unclear on the distinction. Does this mean he would've waited for the first Nazi bomb to hit American soil before joining in with our allies? It may have been too late by then. Ron Paul wants to withdraw all US troops from everywhere. That displays such geopolitical naivety that it is almost beyond belief.
RE: Attention!!! - Guest - 12-02-2011
I guess you did not bother listening to what Bin Laden said at the end of the video.... Could you please watch till the end of the video before commenting. After you are done watching the video, why don't you look up the concept of "Blowback" that the CIA says explains 9/11 and the results of the 9/11 commission report.
We waited until we were attacked by the Japanese before joining the war, yes that is what I mean. Having US troops on foreign soil provokes attacks on us, its called blowback, again please read up on it.
Mahalo.
P.S. You might read what the Quran says about defending the homeland.
For further reading, you might read Ron Pauls reading list that he made for Rudy Giuliani, who also argued the same things you are saying now.
http://www.amazon.com/Educating-Rudy-Paul-reading-list/lm/RJML1CA9L0NCZ
1. Imperial Hubris: Why the West Is Losing the War on Terror by Michael Scheuer
2. Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism by Robert Anthony Pape
3. Blowback, Second Edition: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire by Chalmers A. Johnson
4. The 9/11 Commission Report: Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (Authorized Edition) by Thomas H. Kean
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: Attention!!! - PaulW - 12-02-2011
I did watch that waste-of-time video all the way to end, obviously unlike you.
What could Bin Laden possibly say that could make it true that Ron Paul predicted 9/11?
He did not.
You would rather fight wars on US soil than foreign soil? Not sure Mr Paul will get too much support for that idea.
Anyway, go ahead, vote for Mr Paul. He seems to be a decent man with very simple ideas. I may vote for him too, but for a different reason.