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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 10-29-2019
Mauna Kea isn't on the first-world island of Oahu.
Instead of zoning the summit area “industrial” which it’s not, perhaps the observatories could band together, secede, and form East Oahu on the Mauna Kea scientific reserve. With all of the privileges and protections a 21st century first world research complex requires.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 10-29-2019
East Oahu on the Mauna Kea scientific reserve
It would need a long "panhandle" connecting it to Hilo (harbor and airport) so as to guarantee transportation of passengers and freight.
Meanwhile: how about that 5-mile alternate route to the VIS? Faster and cheaper yet?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 10-29-2019
"panhandle" connecting it to a Hilo...
...how about that 5-mile alternate route to the VIS?
HART branch lines?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - randomq - 11-02-2019
One good thing about these protests is they have driven me to learn more about Hawaii's history and culture. In some cases, I have learned things even the protesters I've talked to were not familiar with, such as who Poli'ahu was or what Waikea did! (How one can consider the mountain sacred or themself a kia'i without knowing Poli'ahu or the Hawaiian origin story was quite revealing to me...)
Here's what I learned today:
Indentured servitude/slavery here had roots in the Hawaiian culture, and was practiced under the Hawaiian Kingdom legally until Hawaii became a US territory.
Before contact with the "west" Hawaii had a caste system with the lowest caste being kauwa. The kauwa were slaves to the ali'i and often used for human sacrifices. Even higher castes like maka'ainana were forced into labor by their masters, to cut down sandalwood trees for tribute, etc.
Kamehameha III was the first Hawaiian monarch to import indentured servants/slaves from China. They worked 6 x 10 hour days a week for $3 a month, when mainland field workers were making closer to $100 per month. The laws passed under the Hawaiian Kingdom (Hawaii Masters and Servants Act) allowed them to be physically punished, prevented from escape, have time added onto their servitude, forbidden from starting other businesses, etc. Even Queen Likiuokalani allowed this form of slavery to exist in her kingdom, until she was overthrown.
Even today the caste system persists, as the sovereignty movement establishes a constitution that excludes these former indentured servants from becoming citizens in their proposed kingdom. These immigrant families lived under the Hawaiian Kingdom and have called Hawaii their home for over 150 years, yet they are still deemed as outsiders and unworthy by their former masters.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Punatic007 - 11-02-2019
Very interesting randomq.
The romanticizing of Hawaiian culture has become a collective delusion bordering on a new mental illness for the DSM. There's not much of a stable platform to build on from the original kingdom unless you like human sacrifices,child abduction and torture for slaves, all legal, to name a few. Fun place it was.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 11-07-2019
You have to wonder about the credibility of the TMT protesters' claim they are not anti-science when you see this:
"HOW MANY MORE IN THE NAME OF $CIENCE?"
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/11/07/video-5-mauna-kea-testimonies-at-uh-hearing-part-1-of-2/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-07-2019
From TomK’s link, we have an award winning author comparing the historical trauma of Hawaiians with the Holocaust.
Award-winning author Mark Panek focused his testimony on cultural trauma...
“It’s a little embarrassing, maybe, to say that this is also the most academically productive place on planet Earth to study the effects of historical trauma on indigenous people,” a statement that drew appreciative applause from the crowd.
“We study historical trauma so we don’t repeat the Holocaust,”
I don’t understand his last statement. If we want to prevent another Holocaust, wouldn’t we study those who caused it, Hitler and early 20th century Germans? If we don’t want to repeat the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom, wouldn’t we then study the perpetrators, the American business interests?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 11-07-2019
Historical trauma is just an excuse given to avoid taking personal responsibility. These people want to keep blaming past events instead of doing something with their lives.
That said, if we're going to take this "trauma" seriously, how about sequencing the DNA of every protestor and testifier in order to determine their level of entitlement to the alleged trauma of these historical events?
For what it's worth, I definitely suffer from historical trauma -- but instead of wallowing in it and demanding that everyone cease all progress while they share in my suffering, I did something with my life.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-08-2019
One of the protestors who has individually and collectively cost taxpayers and Hawaii keiki about $11 million at last count (estimated), complains that the contributions from the TMT and extended astronomy community on Big Island aren't a "benefit to our community:"
Noe Noe Wong-Wilson, one of the leaders of the Kiai #8213; who call themselves protectors and not protesters at Mauna Kea #8213; believes TMT’s economic benefits are “grossly overstated.”
“That’s chicken feed. I’m sorry. That’s not going to provide the benefit, the overall benefit to our community,” she said.
The article also describes a "somber" mood among businesses on Hawaii Island, who have felt the affects of the extended protest:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/11/08/hawaii-island-businesses-somber-over-tmt-stalemate-mauna-kea/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - randomq - 11-08-2019
$300-400 million in local construction, and ~$90 million a year going into our economy, in addition to the ~$170 million per year all the other telescopes contribute. "Chicken feed". What a smart lady.