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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 11-08-2019
You also need to add in all the educational effort the observatory staff put in which is pretty hard to put a price on. Giving young people opportunities to learn about science and technology takes a lot of time and money and we've seen many stories in the local media about how Hawaiian students, of all ages, have benefitted from those opportunities. And of course the $1 rent had to be brought up again and ignored the fact that 15% of the MK Observatories costs go to the University of Hawaii and its STEM courses. Several million dollars worth every year.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - dan d - 11-09-2019
Chicken feed is expensive.she ment chump change.
HPP
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - geochem - 11-09-2019
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
....
The article also describes a "somber" mood among businesses on Hawaii Island, who have felt the affects of the extended protest:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/11/08/hawaii-island-businesses-somber-over-tmt-stalemate-mauna-kea/
More a question for TomK: the HawaiiNewsNow article again cites the $1/yr lease rate for some of the telescopes - which we know is a mis-characterization of the leases... Has anyone calculated the value of the telescope time that is made available to UH (based on the rates charged to other institutions) or of the value of the grants that have been brought in by UH Astronomy faculty and staff to support the science being done with that viewing time? I'd guess that that time has generated far more income to the University than what TMT is paying in direct rent. (I guess the downside of doing that calculation, though, is that it might bring OHA to the table demanding their blood money)... Of that grant income to the University, a significant fraction supports all University services (internet access, library operations/subscriptions/acquisitions) and benefits all students, not just the Astronomy program...
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 11-09-2019
geochem - I will do the research, but suspect you're looking at $10-15 million in observation time given to UH. That doesn't include the costs of the MK observatories' outreach.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - geochem - 11-10-2019
Hi TomK,
I think it would be a good idea to get a fix on both the value of the observing time and the related grants funding generated - and every time the bs artists cite the $1 per year, respond with those numbers. It would also be quite interesting to see what the $1million rental fees paid to UH will "cost" the University in terms of lost grant funding on a comparative basis.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - rainyjim - 11-10-2019
I don’t think you can say anything to them that would make them consider changing their position- except maybe ‘you’re going to jail’
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-10-2019
‘you’re going to jail’
In a news article recently it described how the protestors are hunkering down for the winter. It also mentioned on the day the reporter visited there were about 50 protestors remaining. If that number is correct, for comparison, I believe Oahu police arrested more than that at the wind farm protest over several days.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 11-10-2019
how the protestors are hunkering down for the winter
Those big tents require permits per HCC 5-1.0.8(18)©. The camp doesn't appear to be ADA-compliant, someone needs to call the Feds on that one.
Has anyone calculated the value of the telescope time
Yes, this needs to be converted to dollars so that everyone can calculate their cut. There are probably some tax implications too.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 11-10-2019
Geochem,
Latest I can find, and might not be completely up-to-date, is $90 million operating costs for the MK Observatories. 15% of that is $13.5 million, so that's roughly the rent the observatories pay annually. In addition, it seems the IfA's budget is about $20 million of which $15 million is from federal grants and suspect the other $5 million comes from non-federal sources.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the $1 million going to the university if you mean the TMT. That $1 million will not all be going to the university. OHA will have their share.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-13-2019
An update on the evolution of Harry Kim’s decision making process on the Mauna Kea Access Road impasse:
Hawaii News Now asked Kim if he was supportive of arrests to uphold the law.#8233;"Am I supportive? I guess that's a word you can use. Am I obligated to follow that? I guess so. The question is not whether I like it or not. There's many laws I don't like," he said.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/11/13/mayor-kim-pushes-peace-mauna-kea-silent-how-stalemate-will-ultimately-end/
Harry doesn’t like some laws, just like the protestors. Laws and regulations ala carte.