+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Volcano acting up (/showthread.php?tid=1166)
RE: Volcano acting up - Kelena - 08-18-2007
Wait a minute.....is there some concern that this fissure (Event D or whatever) is, uh, headed in our direction? Bad enough of course that it is burning up a forest reserve, but is it pointing in our general direction and does it have ambitions?
RE: Volcano acting up - Kahunascott - 08-19-2007
Hello Glen? If the lava continues to flow in a NE direction it will be only a matter of time until it will cross HWY 130 some where. What would you think about it crossing Hwy 130 North of Pahoa?
While it may not directly damage your home it will certainly cut off ALL egress to your property.
I think that might just make it a bit hard to get home at night.
Leilaniguy brings up a good point about bombing. If they were to take one of those bunker-busting bombs and guided it to the south side of the fissure it would allow the flow to head south again. God only knows how many of them we wasted in Iraq.
My thought was to simply pump water up from the ocean to the north flank of the fissure and cooling the lava quickly forcing the lava to head south. The ocean is close and there is plenty of water, remember this fissure is at the top of the eastern riff zone and the lava could easily be directed to no mans land. As I said before this eruption is from a fissure and is a shallow and very slow flow, my question is how long is the State going to wait until they take any action?
RE: Volcano acting up - Kelena - 08-19-2007
I think I understand, although it is hard for me to picture the rift zone, and what the top of it is. I thought the top of the rift zone was just above the Pahoa-Kalapana Hwy. That's what I have been telling everybody. If I have the location of the rift zone correct, then you are saying the flow is coming north of that. That means that the flow could come north of Pahoa and cross Hwy 130. That wouldn't be good for anyone.
Diverting might be difficult because if they divert, it seems like someone would be in the path, no matter where it goes.
I will keep my fingers crossed.
I notice some graphics above. Is there some way of knowing, on an updated basis, where the lava is at the moment in relation to the rest of Puna? That's what I am having trouble visualizing.
Perhaps when I come over next week I can go to the general vicinity and check it out? Where would I go? Glenwood?
RE: Volcano acting up - Carey - 08-19-2007
Glen, Your point on diversion is one we just had confirmed in our Field Evironmental course. Our intructor brought up the point that The state is not likely to divert lava because of the lack of adequate control technology & the fact that if the flow is diverted, it could cause damage (and liability) to someones else's property (lava flow is an 'act of God', anything man would do to divert it is a liability of man)
The current flow might get to 130, maybe between Ainaloa & Pahoa or it may go slighly towards Pahoa -Leilani estates. but all of this is speculative at the moment, as the 1983-86 flows course that this flow is meandering around did not extend much farther than this flow.
RE: Volcano acting up - Kahunascott - 08-19-2007
The State needs to weigh the good for many over the few. I mean look south of the fissure not much over in that direction that the volcano hasn’t already taken since the early 1980’s. Carey I would understand your point if it were habituated but it’s not unlike the north and east. So it would be the State’s position to let it flow and cut off life as we know for 10,000 people and families.
The government has dammed and relocated rivers moved earth in great quantities to build infrastructure and constructed levees but they don’t think it’s a good idea to try and save over a dozen communities by diverting lava to an uninhabited area of the BI?? Historically it’s been done in Italy, Iceland and here on the BI.
If the flow continues it’s not a matter of if, but when and where it crosses the road and since this is the only current active flow all the volcanoes energy is vented at this one point. Guys this isn’t a college class for grades it’s the real deal and if not acted on will effect most of our lives for a very long time. IMO the government should be prepared to take action not watch the lava cut off life to lower Puna.
I think the State would be liable if they didn’t take any action and just fiddled why Puna burns.
RE: Volcano acting up - Carey - 08-19-2007
Scott, Our instructor had brought up a lot of points, & my notes do not have all of them, but they include the fact that the technologies used in lava control are not very tested (most water control projects are), none have an accuracy/failure rate of much more than 50% (most water projects have in the upper 90's), the viscous flow of lava is not as well understood as water (it can flow uphill, change viscosity in mid-flow, go from flow to flume...) it is much harder to channelize, as it can weaken and/or liquify most containment methods, and a flow mistake can take decades to reenter, most floods are at most weeks.
Prof. also brought up that the state has alerted owners of the property hazards. and has, by & large, discouraged most new subdivision projects in lava prone areas (this is an official stand that is not as well followed through with).
Prof. also mentioned that the state subsidized insurance was initially to allow those that had land (in the way back times) to be able to have protection. If it was not for this subsidized insurance, mortgage companies would never have issued mortgages & the current build out of Puna & Kau would not have happened.
You are right, in that if the state had never offered the insurance, the problem would not have been as great.
When you use the arguement of weighing the good, remember where the population base is. Also remember to look at the ownership of the lands you think the lava should be diverted onto. Right now it is on state property, and could remain on state property throughout the flow life. That is all we can hope for.
RE: Volcano acting up - Mitzi M - 08-19-2007
Reading this thread made me think about how the issue of where lava will flow is a very old one on this island. A geologist friend of mine told me that it's predicted by the time Kilauea is extinct (whenever that may be) it will cover all of Puna at least once more with lava. I suppose some parts of the island would be a safer bet than others - but as for Puna? Seems like the old timers here take the attitude that you should live a good life and try your best not to make enemies of lava-making Goddesses. There are all kinds of Hawaiian legends about how people brought ruin upon themselves by failing to help or be polite to Pele when she was disguised as a regular person. Of course, like everyone else, I hope for the best. I just think there are some things that can't be controlled by human beings - but I like the idea that by being good to the 'aina and, maybe picking up that woman hitchiking in the rain at night might get you some brownie points.
RE: Volcano acting up - Kelena - 08-19-2007
Last time I was in Puna, I picked up three hitchikers, at the same time. One was a brown skinned woman, heading toward Wa'a Wa's. The other was a very fragrant skinny guy heading toward Papaya Farms, and the third was a surfer who assured me he get fit his board in the car....and he did.
I would never pick up a hitchhiker anyplace else on earth. None of them tried to dismember me, and all were grateful for the ride in a non-gushing, let's not exagerrate your contribution kind of way!
The story of Pele was on my mind as I pulled over!
RE: Volcano acting up - Kelena - 08-19-2007
PS.....this thread has taken on a rather ominous tone. What I read is that if the lava is not diverted, and if it keeps flowing it will cross Highway 130?
C'mon guys. You are freaking me out. If that is what you are saying, saying it again because, you know, I just closed escrow!
However, I came to the risk, no doubt about that. How many miles away from Hwy 130 is the lava, and how quickly is it traveling. Honestly, I am getting nothing on the HVNP site to indicate that the lava is a threat to anything other than the forest.
Nothing in the press about it. Just this thread. Is the lava menacing Puna a present?
RE: Volcano acting up - Rob Tucker - 08-19-2007
Glenn, when you are an ant living next to a snoring giant you keep yout eyes on it.... and don't poke it in the eye. That's what's going on here. Could Puna suffer damage from Kilauea? Sure. A couple days ago everyone in Peru was sleeping soundly in their beds too.