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+--- Thread: **This Post is about HPP and HPPOA Dysfunction** (renamed to spare the uninterested) (/showthread.php?tid=23454)
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - My 2 cents - 11-02-2024
If the county was forced to take over ownership of the roads, wouldn’t the USPS be required to deliver to the mailbox at the end of our driveway like everywhere else? Just propping up my own soap box a bit.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-02-2024
Aloha My 2 Cents,
I have read so many documents (minutes, emails, attorney conversations, and more) where Paradise Hui Hanalike (now HPPOA) have approached the County about taking over the main roads. The County has never been interested. And they are definitely not interested in all the secondary roads. Because the way the County sees it, why should they pay for something they get to use for free (during the eruption, weather emergencies, etc.)
Another reason for the County's disinterest in HPP roads is that way back in 1975 when Paradise Hui Hanalike (now HPPOA) decided to initiate the never ending lawsuit process, they sued not only Watumull but the County too. And while Watumull settled and GAVE Paradise Hui Hanalike (now HPPOA) everything they wanted, the County (using a County court and a County judge) basically told HPPOA to eat dirt, and it was ordered that the County had no obligation "for perpetuity" to accept and maintain HPP roads.
As for home delivery I personally think if Owners stomped on the USPS instead of rolling and allowing USPS to take the easy and REALLY affordable way out for themselves, by basically bribing HPPOA (and Owners) with "free" mailboxes, it might be possible to look into establishing "City Delivery Service," which more aptly fits HPP's setup and is still on the USPS books as an option.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:11037123-5af6-41d2-8596-d4e14acbf116
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - My 2 cents - 11-02-2024
I said “forced”. In federal court, because the state courts have clearly shown bias with their rulings that violate state laws and their ignoring the violations of process. Of course they won’t do it willingly.
I also take issue with “it would bankrupt the county”. That statement goes all the way back to Dante Carpenter, maybe further. Hey, it works. Why would they change it if every time they use it we just bow our heads, turn around and trudge away? Has anyone ever asked to see some numbers and to have a discussion about them? The tax base has grown substantially since Dante was mayor.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-02-2024
Aloha My 2 Cents,
Curious- I would love to see it, but on what grounds could HPP Owners force Hawaii County to take over private roads?
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - kalakoa - 11-02-2024
For what it's worth, the minimum County "road" requires a bigger right-of-way (60') than is available in the private subdivisions (typically 40').
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - My 2 cents - 11-02-2024
Grounds….that the county violated their charter by approving these subdivisions, by showing that these actions were for the sole purpose of making money for a select few with no intentions of the developments to ever be a benefit to the general public, and total disregard for the repercussions of their illegal actions (which continues to this day).
By showing that the class action rulings violate statutes (non-profits are not allowed to charge dues, fees or assessments to non-members), violate owners’ rights (Land Court recordation requires that all encumbrances be shown on the title), and by turning a blind eye to the violations of process (defendant class not being properly and adequately represented as required by law), and even assisting with those violations of process.
It’s actually pretty straight forward, and the foundation documents are readily available.
And please don’t mistake “taking over ownership” to mean “bringing the roads up to county standard”. I just want the responsibility to be where it belongs, and not something for us to argue about and sue each other.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-02-2024
Aloha My 2 Cents,
I am in total agreement with everything you have said. And there are documents to back up everything you have said, as well. The County violated their own charter and statutes. And some "substandard subdivision" Owners have pointed out these County violations and "oversights" for decades.
The questions are; how do Owners force the County to take responsibility? Follow their own rules? How can Owners protect themselves from non-profits who force owners to become members and fund their non-road projects?
The sad answer is, Owners cannot. Not unless they come together, say enough is enough, hound their County and state
reps (which never seems to go anywhere) or barring wasting time with the reps, file a class action lawsuit against the County. From experience, I will tell you that trying to get enough Owners to actually involve themselves in either of those options is almost impossible. Sad but true, the way to "deal with Puna is to divide and ignore."
Unless...
The County actually wants something. And then they can change their own rules.
Action Description 1.1
"...which has a width of 60' in Ainalo and 40' in Hawaiian Acres."
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:4644932f-b390-4ce1-82ba-3ac395fcde60
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Rob Tucker - 11-02-2024
The subdivisions could unite and file a class action suit. They'd win. I think the CoH would be seeking some kind of settlement quickly.
I was once told by a Oahu politician: "The way we deal with Puna is to get everyone arguing and then walk away."
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-03-2024
Aloha Rob Tucker,
I would love to see that- the County settle over a class action lawsuit filed against them by "substandard subdivision" Owners. Anyone know how to get one started? Get people interested? (Maybe Obie does)
I have read through a little of all the old HPP/HPPOA postings on Punaweb. And I agree with your old quote, which I use all the time and is similar to the one you just posted- that the way to address Puna issues was/is to "divide and ignore."
I'm all in for a class action. Anyone else?
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Obie - 11-03-2024
HPP has the best dirt roads of all of the dirt road subdivisions.
It was permitted as an AG subdivision and Watamull did put in roads such as they are. There is no need to pave a lot of the roads and a lot of people don't want their roads paved including me.
I wish you luck but you missed the boat by about 60 years.