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+--- Thread: Discoveries using the telescopes on Mauna Kea (/showthread.php?tid=17412)
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RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-26-2016
Thanks Eric1600.
I appreciate your clear explanation and the links provided.
Good reading material for after work this evening.
- Be pleasant to inefficient workers; give them undeserved promotions. - Work slowly. - Refer all matters to committees for "further study and consideration. - Hold conferences. - Make travel as inconvenient as possible. - Haggle over precise wordings of communications. - Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and avoid haste. (Excerpts from the WWII OSS Simple Sabotage Manual)
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 08-26-2016
Thank you, Eric1600, that was quite comprehensive! As for the one remaining question from HOTPE:
"Is this the largest dark matter galaxy so far detected?"
Yes, by a long way. Other galaxies with impressive amounts of dark matter have been detected, but they are all very small dwarf galaxies roughly 10,000 times less massive than Dragonfly 44, so this is a completely new discovery and mystery, but it might help provide clues as to what dark matter is.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 08-26-2016
PS. HOTPE, Wikipedia has a pretty decent article on dark matter albeit long and quite involved. Thought I'd point it out in case you want to read a little more!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - pahoated - 08-27-2016
quote:No, tool. It was DISCOVERED on another telescope. That team contracted with Keck for 6 days of viewing to confirm. Get your twisted perceptions straight.
Originally posted by Eric1600
Yes it was cataloged by another telescope,
Again, this isn't about the existing observatories. But they show the result of over 50 years of the "massive" benefits of them on Mauna Kea, for Hawaii island. There are thousands of jobs originating from Mauna Kea. Thousands of jobs, possibly tens of thousands. How many of those are on Hawaii island? Around 300 right now, with the promise of 200+ for TMT. The thousands of jobs coming from Mauna Kea are in Japan, China, India, California, Arizona, New York, London, etc. etc. etc.
There are massive confirmations coming from Mauna Kea all the time. There were all these promises made for the educational system and yet, here is the news:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/32828002/scores-sagging-for-high-school-grads-taking-act-college-test
ACT scores show many grads not ready for college-level work
This thing of "OMG! Fantastical Space News! (credit to Keck and Mauna Kea)" is like throwing meat scraps to a dog to make him happy. Fun to a dog, insulting when done to people.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-27-2016
largest dark matter galaxy so far detected?"
...
Yes, by a long way... this is a completely new discovery and mystery
Thanks Tom. It will be interesting to see where this leads. If an entire galaxy formed of dark matter exists, and is for all intents and purposes "invisible" by our current methods of observable detection*, we can only guess as to what else is out there, and how these objects may interact with what we now deem "visible."
A phrase first uttered back in the 1960's might also be applied to this new discovery. Dragonfly 44 really is far out and outasight.
* other than by inference, unexplained accelerations, etc
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-27-2016
Thousands of jobs, possibly tens of thousands. How many of those are on Hawaii island?... 200+ for TMT...
ACT scores show many grads not ready for college-level work...
throwing meat scraps to a dog...
I would ask you two simple questions:
1) Are 200 jobs better than zero jobs?
2) Do you understand the main purpose of a telescope and an observatory?
Ask the appropriate agency, the DOE about ACT scores. Ask the 200 people who did their homework every night then graduated high school, and went on to college, whether the job they qualified for at the TMT will provide them with meat scraps for a dog, or a fulfilling career.
Why don't you start a business that can be fully staffed by high school dropouts and provide them with good jobs? Can't think of a business model? Is that your fault, or the TMT's?
Dark matter, matters.
- Be pleasant to inefficient workers; give them undeserved promotions. - Work slowly. - Refer all matters to committees for "further study and consideration. - Hold conferences. - Make travel as inconvenient as possible. - Haggle over precise wordings of communications. - Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and avoid haste. (Excerpts from the WWII OSS Simple Sabotage Manual)
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - kalakoa - 08-27-2016
Are 200 jobs better than zero jobs?
Not all jobs are created equal -- 200 telescope jobs funded by outside sources is a net gain for the economy, unlike 200 government jobs funded by local tax increases.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 08-27-2016
Pahoated wrote:
"No, tool. It was DISCOVERED on another telescope. That team contracted with Keck for 6 days of viewing to confirm. Get your twisted perceptions straight."
Sigh.
Eric1600's use of the word "cataloged" is pretty accurate and is not the one with a "twisted perception". The Dragonfly 44 object was observed using the Dragonfly Telephoto Array towards the Coma cluster, and using observations from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey and the CFHT on Mauna Kea, it was tentatively concluded, but not confirmed, that the object was part of the cluster. Gemini and the Kecks on Mauna Kea were then used to determine the actual distance and it was only then the object was confirmed as a galaxy. That was published well over a year ago, e.g.,
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/2041-8205/804/1/L26;jsessionid=D092709D9C923B6C8148121B4BF245CF.c1.iopscience.cld.iop.org
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-scientists-fluffiest-galaxies.html
The more recent six nights you mention were not used to confirm it was a galaxy or to confirm any other previous measurement, they were used to measure the velocities of stars in Dragonfly 44 to determine its mass.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - randomq - 08-27-2016
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
quote:No, tool.
Originally posted by Eric1600
Yes it was cataloged by another telescope,
Be cool, man. Dude is proud of his profession, why try to shoot him down or call him names?
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - Guest - 08-28-2016
I for one am glad Ted is here ( Gypsy as well ) to provide perspective on PUNAweb. Otherwise, all we would have is a boring, linear blog from malihini that somehow Rob lets happen.
I would opine that my profession is even more closely related to Hawaii than international Astronomy. May I talk here about it everyday ?