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+--- Thread: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm (/showthread.php?tid=18731)
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - Punaperson - 09-16-2017
Friends of mine lived under a helicopter flight path many years ago, when there were far fewer residents in the area ( they have since moved lower down the mountain). They took 2 sheets of plywood, cut them lengthwise, and painted one word on each in large, bold letters - " YOU PAID TOO MUCH! ".
On boat days, they would place them in their driveway, which gave good visibility from above. It took just a few days before they were no longer under a flight path.
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - geochem - 09-16-2017
quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
My interest in this stems partly from my views on off-road vehicles in natural areas of California, where I visit frequently. See a fairly close parallel between helicopter flights and ORVs in that they impact the ambiance of natural areas.
I guess the concept of peace and tranquility in nature is increasing seen as an anachronism. Our modern world is all about machinery. Everywhere.
I think we are dealing with broader issues that can be addressed entirely differently for natural area reserves and rural agricultural lands. Not that Hawaii actually adheres, or even pretends to adhere, to the precept that the laws apply to everyone equally (no need to respond kalakoa - we all know what you think...). The Puna subdivisions were theoretically intended for agricultural activities - some of those activities are noisy and, hence, a relatively high ambient noise level has to be expected if farming is allowed. That's what you have bought, when you bought your lot in the Puna subdivisions. If you ban helicopters by reducing the acceptable noise levels, you also effectively ban farming activities which are a permitted use. You are then "taking" land rights from those in the community who actually want to use their farms for farming rather than strictly residential use...
WRT natural area reserves - the National Park has, I think, successfully induced FAA to require helicopters to fly at a higher minimum elevation over the Park - which means the noise levels immediately below the helicopeters is somewhat lower, but the sound cone generated by the helicopters spreads much farther into the community around the National Park than it did in the past when choppers were flying at lower elevations.... I think the saying goes: "one man's meat is another mans poison..."
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - leilanidude - 09-16-2017
WRT natural area reserves - the National Park has, I think, successfully induced FAA to require helicopters to fly at a higher minimum elevation over the Park - which means the noise levels immediately below the helicopeters is somewhat lower, but the sound cone generated by the helicopters spreads much farther into the community around the National Park than it did in the past when choppers were flying at lower elevations.... I think the saying goes: "one man's meat is another mans poison..."
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agreed.
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - kalakoa - 09-16-2017
The Puna subdivisions were theoretically intended for agricultural activities
Yes; I call this the "faux residential problem" -- if the subdivisions were zoned R, this discussion would be very different.
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - TomK - 09-16-2017
Erik thanks, that's the first reply I've had to my question:
"When cruising a 5 seater will burn about 28-30 gallons an hour, but climbing costs more, probably around 35-38 gph. If you're climbing 20 minutes more per flight that can add up, plus the passengers don't get the best views."
Now for a geekish reply. The tours typically take 50 minutes, let's call it an hour. The Airbus EC130 helicopters Blue Hawaiian operate have maximum rates of climb of about 1800 feet per minute, so to get to 3000 feet even with a lower rate of climb, doesn't take long. But even assuming it'll take ten more gallons for the trip, what's that, less than $50 per trip - shared between four passengers. Tickets already cost $260 - $310 per person, so it's not a lot to add on to the ticket price.
As for the passengers not getting the best views, well, I can accept that, but I'm not talking about flying at that height over the lava flow or the eruption sites.
Anyway, as geochem pointed out, this is hardly the biggest issue most have to deal with, to me, it's more academic. Geochem - thanks for the advice about noise canceling headphones. Unfortunately, I'm just one of those people that just can't sleep if I have something stuffed in my ears! When I'm with Pam, I lend her mine so she can't hear me a long time before she wakes up - she loves them!
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - Eric1600 - 09-17-2017
For what it's worth they won't probably ascend much faster than 400-500 ft/min because they fly gently for tourists.
I don't think many people are as bothered by the noise others somehow find unbearable. I spend my time all around Puna and the only time I've noticed helicopters is when they're county copters flying low looking for pot growers. I don't get the 50 a day, or feels like a war zone.
I often hike on the lava fields and you can tell when a cruise ship is in town, but even then they aren't that bad and they're flying right over us.
RE: HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm - PaulW - 09-17-2017
My experience as well. Much ado about nothing, or: Eat the rich.