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RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
I am working on something for Julie...
But where are you reading, "No more than 5% will be used for other causes?" That is not what is stated, nor what HPPOA agreed to as per the court. What is stated is, "The amount of COMPENSATION shall be determined annually by the board and shall not exceed 5% of road maintenance funds collected in any given year."
If you look in the comments, you will see where I stated the budget (as per HPPOA) and exactly what is paid for using road fee money. There is absolutely nothing to COMPENSATE HPPOA for. Except, perhaps the rental of the clubhouse for meetings (which is fair, but comes no where close to $170,000/year).
I really do not understand the logic that because the amount taken is not considered large, that it should just be ignored. Wrong is wrong.
In addition, the lawsuit is not just about the use of restricted funds. The lawsuit also addresses the use of deed restricted properties and the adoption of law that does not apply. I have posted the lawsuit on my web page, so if you are interested, please feel free to read.
https://hppowners.com/
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - MyManao - 01-13-2025
How much longer will residents be held captive by the circus parade?
As long as it takes.. for goodness' sake kalakoa, this is not about HPP, and god knows the money don't mean shite, but think of Pat's moral standing, of her self identity, think of Julie's need to go on.. and on.. and on... what would they do.. without? Who would they be? Would they exist at all? I doubt it.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 06:48 PM)MyManao Wrote: How much longer will residents be held captive by the circus parade?
As long as it takes.. for goodness' sake kalakoa, this is not about HPP, and god knows the money don't mean shite, but think of Pat's moral standing, of her self identity, think of Julie's need to go on.. and on.. and on... what would they do.. without? Who would they be? Would they exist at all? I doubt it.
"this is not about HPP, and god knows the money don't mean shite, but think of Pat's moral standing, of her self identity, think of Julie's need to go on.."
You are entitled to your opinion MylittleMan.
But what issues, aside from you apparently feeling inadequate around women (plural), do you have?
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - terracore - 01-13-2025
(01-10-2025, 01:46 AM)Moderator 2 Wrote: As I said, ask questions.
And if we ask all those questions, then what?
I have another question. If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?
I didn't read the entire 12 pages to see if this was already answered, but often times the lien just sits there until the property is sold and then the lien is paid out of escrow from the seller's proceeds. There was a court case in Orchidland where the association attempted to foreclose on a property with a lien and found out the expensive way that they couldn't do that. I don't know any specifics of the case or how the lessons learned might translate to a different road association or even a different owner in OLE but as I understand they haven't tried to do that again.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 07:27 PM)terracore Wrote:(01-10-2025, 01:46 AM)Moderator 2 Wrote: As I said, ask questions.
And if we ask all those questions, then what?
I have another question. If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?
I didn't read the entire 12 pages to see if this was already answered, but often times the lien just sits there until the property is sold and then the lien is paid out of escrow from the seller's proceeds. There was a court case in Orchidland where the association attempted to foreclose on a property with a lien and found out the expensive way that they couldn't do that. I don't know any specifics of the case or how the lessons learned might translate to a different road association or even a different owner in OLE but as I understand they haven't tried to do that again.
If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?
Crazy enough, this info is not listed on the HPPOA website. However, the road maintenance bill states:
Interest at 10% annually will be added to all unpaid balances at the end of each month beginning in April and continuing until paid in full.
Lots with 2 years or more in delinquent Road Fees will be liened and charged $200.
_________
Not sure, if an owner was able to catch up on the fees, why they would wait until their property sold to settle up.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - My 2 cents - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 07:27 PM)terracore Wrote:(01-10-2025, 01:46 AM)Moderator 2 Wrote: As I said, ask questions.
And if we ask all those questions, then what?
I have another question. If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?
I didn't read the entire 12 pages to see if this was already answered, but often times the lien just sits there until the property is sold and then the lien is paid out of escrow from the seller's proceeds. There was a court case in Orchidland where the association attempted to foreclose on a property with a lien and found out the expensive way that they couldn't do that. I don't know any specifics of the case or how the lessons learned might translate to a different road association or even a different owner in OLE but as I understand they haven't tried to do that again.
They haven’t tried to foreclose again, but in the judgment the court also instructed the board that non-judicial liens are not allowed, and gave specific instructions that to place a lien they must first get a judicial determination of the amount, and then place the lien for that amount. For the past 2 years the OLCA BoD has been essentially thumbing their collective noses at the court’s instructions and has been filing non-judicial liens. The number I saw in a newsletter a year and a half ago was 33. I don’t know what the number is now.
It seems logical that a person who is unable to pay their road fees would also be unable to hire an attorney to fight this. So they will continue to get away with it until someone does. And if/when someone does challenge it, as happened with foreclosure, I would expect the punitive damages to be considerable, since the court simply giving specific instructions doesn’t seem to work.
But of course many of you will think this is all fine and dandy since it brings in money. Legal or not is irrelevant. And the BoD will be considered champions for sticking their necks out for our best interests. Our tunes might change if it backfires again and we all get to pay for it.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 09:13 PM)My 2 cents Wrote:(01-13-2025, 07:27 PM)terracore Wrote:(01-10-2025, 01:46 AM)Moderator 2 Wrote: As I said, ask questions.
And if we ask all those questions, then what?
I have another question. If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?
I didn't read the entire 12 pages to see if this was already answered, but often times the lien just sits there until the property is sold and then the lien is paid out of escrow from the seller's proceeds. There was a court case in Orchidland where the association attempted to foreclose on a property with a lien and found out the expensive way that they couldn't do that. I don't know any specifics of the case or how the lessons learned might translate to a different road association or even a different owner in OLE but as I understand they haven't tried to do that again.
They haven’t tried to foreclose again, but in the judgment the court also instructed the board that non-judicial liens are not allowed, and gave specific instructions that to place a lien they must first get a judicial determination of the amount, and then place the lien for that amount. For the past 2 years the OLCA BoD has been essentially thumbing their collective noses at the court’s instructions and has been filing non-judicial liens. The number I saw in a newsletter a year and a half ago was 33. I don’t know what the number is now.
It seems logical that a person who is unable to pay their road fees would also be unable to hire an attorney to fight this. So they will continue to get away with it until someone does. And if/when someone does challenge it, as happened with foreclosure, I would expect the punitive damages to be considerable, since the court simply giving specific instructions doesn’t seem to work.
But of course many of you will think this is all fine and dandy since it brings in money. Legal or not is irrelevant. And the BoD will be considered champions for sticking their necks out for our best interests. Our tunes might change if it backfires again and we all get to pay for it.
It seems logical that a person who is unable to pay their road fees would also be unable to hire an attorney to fight this.
Aloha, My2Cents.
I have read a little about OCLA's history. Even an old court case.
Unlike what some are trying to sell, adopting 421J will not end this cycle of associations doing "whatever they want." Especially as the Hawaii DCCA is of no use to owners and the state legislature seems to have dropped the ball on the Oversight Task Force. 421J will just empower Road Associations to think and act like they are "so much more."
Question, are you sure OCLA cannot file non-jidicial liens? I can see where they could not file a non-judicial foreclosure (though road associations are not supposed to file foreclosures at all).
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - HiloJulie - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 06:48 PM)MyManao Wrote: As long as it takes.. for goodness' sake kalakoa, this is not about HPP, and god knows the money don't mean shite, but think of Pat's moral standing, of her self identity, think of Julie's need to go on.. and on.. and on... what would they do.. without? Who would they be? Would they exist at all? I doubt it.
I guess the font reduction machine is not working today.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - My 2 cents - 01-13-2025
HiloJulie’s comments indicate that she is a bit of a stickler for contracts and agreements, and that people should be thorough in their understanding of the terms and conditions before signing anything. I totally agree, and since that is (supposed to be) the main theme of this thread that Patricia posted, it would seem like there is some pretty solid common ground here. Does anyone disagree? Anyone? Anyone?
One observation I have is that there have been several references to the HPP Bylaw that allows for a portion of the road money to be used for non-road related items. We need to keep in mind that bylaws are not laws by themselves. All bylaws need to be supported by legal foundation. If not, they are null and void. It’s in 414D, you can look it up, or you can use your common sense. Suppose we pass a bylaws change that allows for you to kill any owner of a rooster farm. While I can hear people’s wheels turning on this idea, we all know that the bylaws won’t help you at your murder trial. For a real life example, OLCA put foreclosure into their bylaws about 20 years ago. It didn’t help them a bit when it went to court.
I’m just mentioning this because this is what HPPOA will be faced with in this part of their court case. They will have to show some kind of legal foundation for their use of road money for non-road items that supports that bylaw. Maybe there’s something that I’m not aware of.
This is not about the need for mailboxes. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. It’s more about proper process, and terms and conditions being followed.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - HiloJulie - 01-13-2025
To any HPP resident who knows:
Has there ever been or is there currently any attempt at foreclosure of property/home(s) in HPP for nonpayment of mandatory road fees?
ETA: Sorry for this addition, but My2Cents posts came in before and after I posted this originally.
According to the HPPOA bylaws:
Section 5. Defaults in the Payment of Assessments. Each assessment of expenses by the Association shall be a separate, distinct and personal debt of the lot owner of record (or in the case of multiple owners of a lot, each owner jointly and severally) against whom the same is assessed. If the lot owner shall fail to pay the assessment when due, then said lot owner shall be in arrears. The Association may seek all costs and expenses including reasonable attorneys' fees incurred by or on behalf of the Association in collecting any delinquent assessments against such lot owners. Similarly, the delinquent lot owners shall be responsible for any and all costs associated with the recordation and release of liens on their respective properties. Delinquent assessments shall bear interest at a rate determined by the board, but not greater than the highest rate provided by Hawaii law. In the event of default or defaults of any lot owners, the board may enforce such obligation by filing a lien against the lot. The board may also pursue any other remedies provided by law, including, but not limited to attachment, execution on lien, foreclosure, and writ of possession.
So, let me rephrase my question to:
Has foreclosure for non-payment of road fees ever been attempted in HPP?