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+--- Thread: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval (/showthread.php?tid=16551)
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - dakine - 10-31-2015
a form of group mental illness..
Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - Lodestone - 10-31-2015
I'm waiting for the inevitable conclusion that the reason the quote cannot be found is that the internet is being controlled by the wily Israelis.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - dakine - 10-31-2015
Your views are like textbook examples of how haole mainland transplants can twist and distort the Hawaiian culture, religion and history
Hey PT, that is well said! It reminds me of a post from a long time ago by punafish that references an article about how different cultures see the world and why. And, I believe, goes a long way towards explaining the inability of most haoles to understand the Hawaiian's at all.
Originally posted by punafish:
New research that questions many assumptions we hold near and dear to our hearts, for example the impact of culture on behavior, cognition, even our individual "hardwiring". Here's a fascinating article that touches on the concept of "cultural memory" (but definitely not "racial"). A snippet:
"Studies show that Western urban children grow up so closed off in man-made environments that their brains never form a deep or complex connection to the natural world. While studying children from the U.S., researchers have suggested a developmental timeline for what is called “folkbiological reasoning.” These studies posit that it is not until children are around 7 years old that they stop projecting human qualities onto animals and begin to understand that humans are one animal among many. Compared to Yucatec Maya communities in Mexico, however, Western urban children appear to be developmentally delayed in this regard. Children who grow up constantly interacting with the natural world are much less likely to anthropomorphize other living things into late childhood.
Given that people living in WEIRD societies don’t routinely encounter or interact with animals other than humans or pets, it’s not surprising that they end up with a rather cartoonish understanding of the natural world. “Indeed,” the report concluded, “studying the cognitive development of folkbiology in urban children would seem the equivalent of studying ‘normal’ physical growth in malnourished children.”
http://www.psmag.com/books-and-culture/joe-henrich-weird-ultimatum-game-shaking-up-psychology-economics-53135
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - Mtviewdude - 10-31-2015
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
quote:You have so many things totally muddled, it would take too long to address the question set that has been presented. Your views are like textbook examples of how haole mainland transplants can twist and distort the Hawaiian culture, religion and history. This happens by reading strictly opinions on Internet social media sites, without go to the historical documentation.
Originally posted by Mtviewdude
So pre-contact nobody except the alii owned land, the biggest land theft was one alii nui stealing another alii nui's terrority. Like Kamehameha stealing the islands of Oahu, Maui and Kauai, correct?
Only the ali'i owned land but it was totally shared by all the people. What in the world do you think the word 'aloha' is describing? The tyrannical, cruel, selfish opinion you have of the pre-contact Hawaiians seems to be self generated. The Hawaiian culture was a real culture, almost a paradise -- but not. This is a continuing problem with white people never understanding the depths of the Hawaiian culture. It was a civilization, not tribes, not primitives, not savages, not cannibals, although they did eat human parts.
The Hawaiians never developed the idea of a human being able to own land, the same as the First Nation Native Americans. How can a kane own that which is owned by the akua and kupua? The difference is the ali'i are aware of the living kupua and the living kupua is aware of them. The Hawaiian culture is the Hawaiian religion and the Hawaiian religion is the Hawaiian culture.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
Sorry to disappoint you, but born and bred in the islands, same with my children. My parents were from the mainland though.
Hawaiians did know land ownership, though maybe not in the western sense. Heck even in elementary school here we were taught about Ahupuaa's and about Ahu's being used as a boundaries. It was quite clear where the land divisions were and who controlled them.
Now what about my post was wrong. What have the alii every done for the commoners that did not involved exploitation.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - PunaMauka2 - 10-31-2015
Hey, a ghoulish pahoated - dakine duo spewing racist filth. A fittingly freakish match made in hell on this Hallow's Eve. Who needs obake stories when we get these two disturbed spirits pairing up.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - Mtviewdude - 10-31-2015
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
Your views are like textbook examples of how haole mainland transplants can twist and distort the Hawaiian culture, religion and history
Hey PT, that is well said! It reminds me of a post from a long time ago by punafish that references an article about how different cultures see the world and why. And, I believe, goes a long way towards explaining the inability of most haoles to understand the Hawaiian's at all.
Originally posted by punafish:
New research that questions many assumptions we hold near and dear to our hearts, for example the impact of culture on behavior, cognition, even our individual "hardwiring". Here's a fascinating article that touches on the concept of "cultural memory" (but definitely not "racial"). A snippet:
"Studies show that Western urban children grow up so closed off in man-made environments that their brains never form a deep or complex connection to the natural world. While studying children from the U.S., researchers have suggested a developmental timeline for what is called “folkbiological reasoning.” These studies posit that it is not until children are around 7 years old that they stop projecting human qualities onto animals and begin to understand that humans are one animal among many. Compared to Yucatec Maya communities in Mexico, however, Western urban children appear to be developmentally delayed in this regard. Children who grow up constantly interacting with the natural world are much less likely to anthropomorphize other living things into late childhood.
Given that people living in WEIRD societies don’t routinely encounter or interact with animals other than humans or pets, it’s not surprising that they end up with a rather cartoonish understanding of the natural world. “Indeed,” the report concluded, “studying the cognitive development of folkbiology in urban children would seem the equivalent of studying ‘normal’ physical growth in malnourished children.”
http://www.psmag.com/books-and-culture/joe-henrich-weird-ultimatum-game-shaking-up-psychology-economics-53135
Nice try, but i grew up here. If what I said was wrong, then disprove it and don't try and dismiss me as a mainland transplant who doesn't know squat.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - dakine - 11-01-2015
quote:Hey! Anything I can do to help PM2, you and all those here, Tommy of course (other thread), and PaulW. all of you, with your need for a target to focus your displeasure, your animosity, your hate for others upon. I am more than happy to give you one. As I said, blame all your woes on me, it's all my fault, whatever it is. That's great, I truly, from the bottom of my heart, hope it makes you feel better. Gives you a greater sense of self worth. All of you who by your posts appear to be the greater of those amount us. God bless you.
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
Hey, a ghoulish pahoated - dakine duo spewing racist filth. A fittingly freakish match made in hell on this Hallow's Eve. Who needs obake stories when we get these two disturbed spirits pairing up.
Mtviewdude - I would add, I don't think the distinction between the Hawaiian point of view and what we commonly think of as a Westerner, haole, is strictly tied to ones place of birth. In my reckoning Hawaii has been occupied by the Western mind set for generations already. One can acquire it right here. Conversely, the Hawaiian, can be found in white folks as well as any other. Physical race, breed if you will, doesn't account for everything. The worlds way too complicated for that.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - Punatic007 - 11-01-2015
quote:
Originally posted by Lodestone
I'm waiting for the inevitable conclusion that the reason the quote cannot be found is that the internet is being controlled by the wily Israelis.
Instead of contributing anything constructive to the conversation, you randomly throw pot shots at me in different threads here. Where did I hit a nerve with you lodestone? Welfare? are you an entitled EBT+ recipient? Or a daily and habitual marijuana smoker? It appears Dakine is also a heavy smoker. You live in Puna long enough, you learn to identify pothead conversation which includes snide remarks from unprocessed emotions and feelings. Displaced anger seeps thru at the strangest times from daily pot smokers.
Any intelligent person who is pro-Israel can maintain a mature discussion about the fact that Zionists own almost all our media. We get our info filtered thru a Zionist lens, why not discuss that rationally? Or have I hit everyone of your buttons?
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - Mtviewdude - 11-01-2015
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
Mtviewdude - I would add, I don't think the distinction between the Hawaiian point of view and what we commonly think of as a Westerner, haole, is strictly tied to ones place of birth. In my reckoning Hawaii has been occupied by the Western mind set for generations already. One can acquire it right here. Conversely, the Hawaiian, can be found in white folks as well as any other. Physical race, breed if you will, doesn't account for everything. The worlds way too complicated for that.
I disagree.
I see Hawaiian culture like I do Christianity, more of an illogical cult. You ask hard questions and you are met with the "how dare you, you don't understand you (haole/unbeliever)".
1: The moon is made of cheese!
2: How can there be cheese if cows can't live on the money.
1: Go back to the mainland, you can't understand with your haole mindset
2: ????
Again, point out what I said that was untrue. Not that i can't understand because I don't understand Hawaii Culture, or because of my mindset. Facts are facts.
RE: Hawaiians-Only Election Gets Court Approval - opihikao - 11-01-2015
FYI: Another viewpoint, in today's Star Advertiser:
FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF OUR KUPUNA
By Kawika K. Burgess
Opinion Editorial, Honolulu Star Advertiser
POSTED: 1:37 a.m. HST, Nov 1, 2015
Today, the Native Hawaiian community is at a historic crossroad. We are faced with an opportunity, being facilitated by Nai Aupuni, to reorganize our lahui (community of people) and take the first steps on the long road toward rebuilding the nation. At the same time we also face a separate question from the United States Department of Interior as to whether or not our lahui should pursue a federal rule, which would allow for federal recognition of our lahui if we so chose. These monumental decisions will not only impact us, but also our children and the future generations of Hawaiians, as well as the broader community in Hawaii.
Some Hawaiians refer to the example of our kupuna who formed the Hui Aloha Aina and Hui Kalaiaina, signed the kue petitions, and protested the treaty of annexation in 1897 as the political strategy we should follow today. Indeed, our kupuna's activism at the end of the 19th century was a heroic feat in which nearly every Hawaiian adult signed the petitions opposing the United States' annexation of Hawaii and were successful in stopping the treaty of annexation in the U.S. Senate.
However, while some use this historical act as a reason for Hawaiians to disengage from local, state and federal politics today, those who signed the kue petitions did not disengage from American politics after 1898. To the contrary, our kupuna who formed the Hui Aloha Aina and the Hui Kalaiaina, our same kupuna who signed the kue petitions, our same kupuna who protested annexation, also encouraged the lahui to engage.
They established the Home Rule Party and did the best they could to elect leaders within the government system that exercised power over Hawaii. They lobbied to become a state, for homestead lands, to improve the education system, for farms, roads and bridges. They opposed monopolies, burdensome taxes and limiting the right to a trial by jury. They sent the Hon. Robert Wilcox and then-Prince Kuhio Kalanianaole to Congress.
Hawaiians dominated early territorial politics, holding Hawaii legislative meetings in the Hawaiian language. They formed Hawaiian Civic Clubs, restored the Royal Order of Kamehameha, and substantially influenced the local Republican and Democratic parties, as well as the county governments, where they again had strong representation in each county and elected Hawaiian mayors for the City and County of Honolulu, including John Lane and John Wilson.
Hawaiians today indeed should follow in the footsteps of our kupuna who signed the kue petitions. But those footsteps did not end at the protest of annexation. Those footsteps continued into full participation in local politics where they continued to ensure the rights of our people were protected. For us to do anything less today, to not participate, or worse, to oppose other Hawaiians who choose to get involved and have their voices heard, would be contrary to the example given by our kupuna.
"Aole o kakou kuhina aku i koe, koe wale ae la no keia pono akea i haawi ia mai e Amerika ia oukou ka lahui, e hopu a paa, a na oukou e hooponopono no kakou no keia mua aku."
("There is no other option left, all that remains is this public benefit which was given by America to you the lahui, grab hold of it, it is up to you to make things right for all of us for the future.")
-- Ka Moiwahine Lili`uokalani
FWIW.
P.S. MTViewDude: Mahalo for your opinion, but respectfully disagree. We are not a "cult", nor a "tribe". We are a people.
JMO.