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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-17-2019
7:30 AM, 7/17
Police explained to protestors what will happen today if they continue blocking Mauna Kea Access Road.
Arrests will be for “obstruction of a government operation.”
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-17-2019
FYI Naleo-TV is live streaming from the access road.
http://naleo.tv/channel-53/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - SBH - 07-17-2019
Arrests happening right now.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - geochem - 07-17-2019
Ironyak, I have no disagreement with you that the state, as currently managed, is thoroughly incompetent. But it's too easy to find fault to gain much credit at that game. However, you are a bit too quick to assign blame for that fault. Yes, the management of the Mauna Kea summit has been less than perfect - when a lot of the problems at the summit occurred, the University of Hawaii was experiencing a 30% loss of their state funded budget. Our legislature, and our regulatory agencies are very good at assigning tasks (and blame when those tasks don't get done), but are all too quick to forget that those tasks cost money.
The astronomy research community has brought substantial financial support to the University of Hawaii - support that pays for the library, that pays for internet access (you may not have been here, or remember, that high speed internet access was first installed on this island to support the astronomy operations), that maintains the overall university infrastructure that every UH student in the state benefits from. To blame the astronomy community, or the University for the withdrawal of financial support by the legislature is simply misguided.
Yes there have been impacts - "substantial" - or not - is in the eye of the beholder. For some, any impact is substantial and unacceptable - but the same can be said of construction of any structure. Was the impact of construction of your home substantial? if your lot is no longer native forest, then I think maybe it was... just like the construction of mine was - but I prefer not to live in a lava tube.
And I have to ask a question - you are aware that OMKM sponsors periodic volunteer days for the community-minded to go up to Mauna Kea to pull invasive weeds - I have participated in a a few - have you?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - rainyjim - 07-17-2019
quote:I don't agree that there is any significant, substantial nor adverse impacts relative to any other area in Hawaii.
Originally posted by ironyak
So multiple audits by the state and a 2007 EIS by NASA showing significant, substantial and adverse impacts means nothing because YOU personally have not seen it?
quote:That's your interpretation. I never asserted what you are implying - it's no crime to posit my experiences, nor does my positing of my personal experiences influence or limit my ability to possess a scientific perspective.
Originally posted by ironyak
And then you plaster this single point perspective as being scientific? There must be a great many things in the universe you don't believe exist because you have not directly witnessed them.
quote:Yeah I can't really argue with that in regards to the OMKM, but in regards to the current situation with protestors - NO. Not at all, the situation is about Hawaiian sovereignty and has nothing to do with mismanagement. Welcome to politics 101.
Originally posted by ironyak
The situation is the result of the state being unable to create and then actually follow their own regulations...
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-17-2019
geochem - UH is also part of the state and another agency playing the round robin of "your job, not mine" (as noted in the audits). The state (UH, DNLR, State Legislature, etc) have all played their part in the current clusterf#ck, but my point to rainyjim is that to ignore the repeated documentation from both state and federal agencies because he has not personally witnessed it is naive, self-serving, or both.
I have not participated in weed/invasive species mitigation on Mauna Kea, but have in HVNP. Perhaps that negates everything I have brought up here or perhaps such logical fallacies are shoddy discussion tactics?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - dan d - 07-17-2019
See them standing arround only,
Looks like a nice day on the mountain
HPP
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 07-17-2019
Arrests have begun.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-17-2019
rainyjim - I don't agree that there is any significant, substantial nor adverse impacts relative to any other area in Hawaii.
Strangely enough, I don't think Waikiki or Richardson's is Conservation Land (nor is my lot the last time I checked geochem). Add False Equivalences to the list of logical fallacies for the day. Come on fellow scientists, you can do better than this?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - dan d - 07-17-2019
Looks like the elderly person at the front was first and they are working therr way back to the canopy tents( which are set up on the road.)
Looks like sheriffs doin the dirty work w police standing by.
Wonder how many weeks it will be before we can brodcast up at the vis our astro pics on
Dark skies network again. 10 yrs of construction woild be a long time to not observe or Ski
Aloha
HPP