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+--- Thread: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs (/showthread.php?tid=23524)
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - My 2 cents - 01-13-2025
"Question, are you sure OCLA cannot file non-jidicial liens?"
I don't have the judgment in front of me but here is the appropriate section of the current bylaws that was adopted after the ruling. The wording is slightly different but essentially the same.
ARTICLE IV — MRMA & COLLECTION
.......
Upon any lot owner becoming delinquent for one or more yearsafter the due date for payment, the BOD may enforce collection by obtaining a judgment against the property owner for the payment of MRMA, and then registering the judgment with an assistant registrar of the Bureau of Conveyances or Land Court of the State of Hawaii.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 10:12 PM)HiloJulie Wrote: To any HPP resident who knows:
Has there ever been or is there currently any attempt at foreclosure of property/home(s) in HPP for nonpayment of mandatory road fees?
ETA: Sorry for this addition, but My2Cents posts came in before and after I posted this originally.
According to the HPPOA bylaws:
Section 5. Defaults in the Payment of Assessments. Each assessment of expenses by the Association shall be a separate, distinct and personal debt of the lot owner of record (or in the case of multiple owners of a lot, each owner jointly and severally) against whom the same is assessed. If the lot owner shall fail to pay the assessment when due, then said lot owner shall be in arrears. The Association may seek all costs and expenses including reasonable attorneys' fees incurred by or on behalf of the Association in collecting any delinquent assessments against such lot owners. Similarly, the delinquent lot owners shall be responsible for any and all costs associated with the recordation and release of liens on their respective properties. Delinquent assessments shall bear interest at a rate determined by the board, but not greater than the highest rate provided by Hawaii law. In the event of default or defaults of any lot owners, the board may enforce such obligation by filing a lien against the lot. The board may also pursue any other remedies provided by law, including, but not limited to attachment, execution on lien, foreclosure, and writ of possession.
So, let me rephrase my question to:
Has foreclosure for non-payment of road fees ever been attempted in HPP?
I believe Ted Hong did perform a foreclosure, which was conducted against several Japanese Nationals.
I spoke to the person who was the board president at the time and asked why this was done, seeing as the court order granting HPPOA to collect road fee money also bars them from foreclosure proceedings. The ex-president was unaware of the court ruling ar that time (though I would think Attorney Hong should have known about it, but maybe not).
Bottom line is, regardless of HPPOA's word salad bylaws, they are not permitted to foreclose on properties.
(01-13-2025, 10:11 PM)My 2 cents Wrote: HiloJulie’s comments indicate that she is a bit of a stickler for contracts and agreements, and that people should be thorough in their understanding of the terms and conditions before signing anything. I totally agree, and since that is (supposed to be) the main theme of this thread that Patricia posted, it would seem like there is some pretty solid common ground here. Does anyone disagree? Anyone? Anyone?
One observation I have is that there have been several references to the HPP Bylaw that allows for a portion of the road money to be used for non-road related items. We need to keep in mind that bylaws are not laws by themselves. All bylaws need to be supported by legal foundation. If not, they are null and void. It’s in 414D, you can look it up, or you can use your common sense. Suppose we pass a bylaws change that allows for you to kill any owner of a rooster farm. While I can hear people’s wheels turning on this idea, we all know that the bylaws won’t help you at your murder trial. For a real life example, OLCA put foreclosure into their bylaws about 20 years ago. It didn’t help them a bit when it went to court.
I’m just mentioning this because this is what HPPOA will be faced with in this part of their court case. They will have to show some kind of legal foundation for their use of road money for non-road items that supports that bylaw. Maybe there’s something that I’m not aware of.
This is not about the need for mailboxes. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. It’s more about proper process, and terms and conditions being followed.
This is not about the need for mailboxes. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. It’s more about proper process, and terms and conditions being followed.
EXACTLY! Thank you. Someone finally gets it.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Durian Fiend - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 10:11 PM)My 2 cents Wrote: ...I’m just mentioning this because this is what HPPOA will be faced with in this part of their court case. They will have to show some kind of legal foundation for their use of road money for non-road items that supports that bylaw. Maybe there’s something that I’m not aware of.
This is not about the need for mailboxes. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. It’s more about proper process, and terms and conditions being followed.
Perhaps it could be argued that the availability of these mailboxes reduces miles driven on HPP roads, thereby reducing road repairs. Anything that works to get people out of their cars is a win for a subdivision IMO.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(though I would think Attorney Hong should have known about it, but maybe not).
BUT he really should have known about the no foreclosure order. He has been involved with HPPOA, off and on, for decades. He filed court motions for them, tried to get 6595 dismissed with prejudice (which did not work).
He really SHOULD know...
(01-13-2025, 10:18 PM)My 2 cents Wrote: "Question, are you sure OCLA cannot file non-jidicial liens?"
I don't have the judgment in front of me but here is the appropriate section of the current bylaws that was adopted after the ruling. The wording is slightly different but essentially the same.
ARTICLE IV — MRMA & COLLECTION
.......
Upon any lot owner becoming delinquent for one or more yearsafter the due date for payment, the BOD may enforce collection by obtaining a judgment against the property owner for the payment of MRMA, and then registering the judgment with an assistant registrar of the Bureau of Conveyances or Land Court of the State of Hawaii.
the BOD may enforce collection by obtaining a judgment against the property owner for the payment of MRMA, and then registering the judgment with an assistant registrar of the Bureau of Conveyances or Land Court of the State of Hawaii.
Well, that sure looks like a judicial proceeding is required to me (the judgement part kinda gives it away).
Unless your BOD does not know what a judgement is?
"A judgement is a court ruling."
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - kalakoa - 01-13-2025
I'm reminded of a quote.
"The reason university politics are so vicious is that there's so little to fight over."
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-13-2025
(01-13-2025, 11:18 PM)kalakoa Wrote: I'm reminded of a quote.
"The reason university politics are so vicious is that there's so little to fight over."
We are not talking about university politics. We are discussing local politics, which impact MANY in the Puna area.
From the AP, regarding local politics:
Research suggests that declining coverage increases corruption and bad local governance
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Obie - 01-14-2025
I'm not sure how this turned into a discussion about road fees and liens but I know of one subdivision that was able to collect on all most of their liens that were filed.
Hawaii County even started the collections for them.
VHCA Vacationland in Kapoho !
When the county buyout program started paying out to those that lost their primary residences after 2018 lava flow, Those liens had to be cleared before any money was paid out. After the 1st few encountered these liens and it delayed the payout by months ( the lien had to be satisfied to clear the title), a miracle happened.
All of the owners who were in arrears started to contact VHCA and paid them off so as to not delay their County payout.
VHCA now has enough money to start rebuilding roads.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - HiloJulie - 01-14-2025
(01-13-2025, 05:19 PM)Durian Fiend Wrote: I see this as making a whole lot of trouble over essentially nothing. A win on this battle would be a perfect example of a pyrrhic victory. A stated "no more than 5% shall be used for other causes" that's spent on mailboxes for residents is worthy of a lawsuit?
No, not really.
(01-13-2025, 06:00 PM)kalakoa Wrote: How much is already being spent on lawsuits? Is this "acceptable" because it's an "operating expense" rather than a "fixed capital expenditure"? How much longer will residents be held captive by the circus parade?
(01-13-2025, 06:40 PM)HereOnThePrimalEdge Wrote: This is a good question for those bringing the lawsuits. If they lose, do they plan on reimbursing HPP residents for the money spent on defending the lawsuits?
These lawsuits are directly the result of the way each of these “substandard” subdivisions operate. I live in Hawaiian Acres. How many “renegade boards” has the Acres been through over the years?
Same question with HPP, Ainaloa, Orchidland… every damn one of them.
This is what happens when every time there is an election for Board of Directors, less than 5% to 10% of the eligible voters actually vote. How many times has the Board of Directors of HPPOA and its predecessor(s) been elected with more than 500 votes? Out of 8,000 possible votes. That’s 6.25% of the eligible voters. Even if you discount the 8,000 possible votes in half, 500 votes mean 12.5% of the eligible voters voted. To then be given the legal authority to “be in charge” as a duly elected Board of Directors. Similar percentages exist in all the other subdivisions.
HPP’s own bylaws state that a quorum of membership is:
- Section 12. Quorum of the Membership. A majority of the members in good standing or 30 members in good standing, whichever is less.
Further, I’d say a majority of those who run for these Boards know that they will be elected – most are almost always unopposed – by the slimmest minority of the eligible voting residents/lot owners – which is why they run in the first place – which begs the question as to their real competency.
But it then just becomes a recipe for and a forgone conclusion that these endless lawsuits, disputes, threats etc., will and clearly do happen as a simple minority elects the Board and then the majority - or even a smaller minority that elected the Board in the first place - becomes unglued at the decisions being or not being made.
I can pretty much guarantee that ALL of these lawsuits end when a MAJORITY of eligible voters in any of these subdivisions start electing their respective Boards of Directors with over 50% of the eligible voters actually voting. (And participating)
But what puzzles me even more about this current lawsuit is this clause from HPPOA bylaws:
- ARTICLE XV – ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION In the event of disagreement between the board, its committees, employees, volunteers of the Association, or any of the lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision arising from or relating to the interpretation or implementation of the provisions of these bylaws, the parties shall pursue dispute resolution by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association and Chapter 658A of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, as amended. Arbitration shall be binding on parties to the controversy. Any judgment and/or award rendered by the Arbitrator may be entered into any court having jurisdiction thereof.
To add to the “remembering of quotes” collection, Mike Tyson once said, "The closest enemy is usually the one in the mirror". Eddie Vedder also said, "The man they call my enemy, I've seen his eyes. He looks just like me, a mirror".
(01-13-2025, 10:11 PM)My 2 cents Wrote: HiloJulie’s comments indicate that she is a bit of a stickler for contracts and agreements, and that people should be thorough in their understanding of the terms and conditions before signing anything. I totally agree, and since that is (supposed to be) the main theme of this thread that Patricia posted, it would seem like there is some pretty solid common ground here. Does anyone disagree? Anyone? Anyone?
This is not about the need for mailboxes. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. It’s more about proper process, and terms and conditions being followed.
Well, it’s the lawyer in me.
At any event, not only is attention to detail critical, but it’s also understanding one’s own limitations to the knowledge of that detail and when unsure, seeks competent professional help. Even maybe a second opinion of the professional help is warranted.
But when that professional help advises one of their options, laws and legality thereof, and especially if confirmed by second and third advisements, and goes against that advisement, then the ignorance of the options, laws and legalities becomes intentional.
And one more additional comment:
While HPP et al; all have their own legal issues that contribute to each of their respective “substandard” subdivisions being "substandard," so does the County. And in this case, the USPS.
But they always need to be kept separate and distinct from each other, even when one contributes to the other.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-14-2025
But they always need to be kept separate and distinct from each other, even when one contributes to the other.
I agree with you that the USPS, Substandard Subdivisions and the County (along with the state and feds) are distinct entities. However, they act collectively. Sometimes to the advantage of one entity over another.
Owners who live in substandard subdivision pay road maintenance fees.
Owners in substandard communities pay County and state tax, which greatly benefits the county and state
Owners in substandard subdivisions pay federal tax, which benefits the fed (and the USPS- we have bailed them out twice).
The USPS is supposed to provide mail service, which customers everywhere pay for with stamps, shipping fees, etc.
But now, substandard subdivision owners must not only pay road fees to maintain their private roads, and taxes to support the County, state, and the feds, but they must also run their own "mailbox business."
These distinct entities need to work together, figure this out and DO something. Because the only entities benefiting here are the county, the state, the feds, and the USPS.
Substandard subdivision owners are screwed. And most of them do not even seem to realize it.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Obie - 01-14-2025
HiloJulie
HPP votes by mail for directors. I'm not sure of the vote numbers but it's not as low as your estimate. The quorum numbers are for membership meetings which are irrelevant. Anything voted on at a membership meeting is subject to approval by the board.
At the last membership meeting the board was trying to have a vote on bylaws to get a feel for how the members felt and Patricai was on the losing end of the voting so she created such a disturbance that they lost quorum.