(01-14-2025, 03:04 AM)Patricia Wrote: But they always need to be kept separate and distinct from each other, even when one contributes to the other.

I agree with you that the USPS, Substandard Subdivisions and the County (along with the state and feds) are distinct entities. However, they act collectively. Sometimes to the advantage of one entity over another.

Owners who live in substandard subdivision pay road maintenance fees.

Owners in substandard communities pay County and state tax, which greatly benefits the county and state

Owners in substandard subdivisions pay federal tax, which benefits the fed (and the USPS- we have bailed them out twice).

The USPS is supposed to provide mail service, which customers everywhere pay for with stamps, shipping fees, etc.

But now, substandard subdivision owners must not only pay road fees to maintain their private roads, and taxes to support the County, state, and the feds, but they must also run their own "mailbox business."

These distinct entities need to work together, figure this out and DO something. Because the only entities benefiting here are the county, the state, the feds, and the USPS.

Substandard subdivision owners are screwed. And most of them do not even seem to realize it.

(01-14-2025, 03:37 AM)Punaperson Wrote: A note about liens on properties in OLE -

A friend who is a long-time resident of OLE bought another lot several  years ago, and started an enterprise on the lot registered as a sole proprietorship with the state and the feds.  The road fees have been paid each year on both properties,  but as separate transactions to simplify taxes.  They went to a local bank a few months ago to pre-qualify for a car loan, and were told that a lien placed on the second property for non-payment of road fees for the last several years precluded them from getting the loan.  As they have proof of payment, they are in the process of untangling the mess they have found themselves in,  costing them time, stress and a good loan rate.  So be aware, just because there is no foreclosure option doesn't mean there are no real world repercussions, even if caused by clerical error.

(01-14-2025, 04:43 AM)HiloJulie Wrote: "Substandard subdivision owners are screwed. And most of them do not even seem to realize it."

"A note about liens on properties in OLE -"

"And again, no way to demand OLE make it right and no repercussions. Not unless OLE is willing to make it right. Or owners sue."

Let's take a step back here for a moment.

In as much as I can see a clerical error happening that allows for a lien to be filed on a property improperly, it is a rectifiable matter within 24 to 48 hours.

Further, I am highly suspect to this as lien being filed - and as stated for several years - as that would require actual legal service of that lien on the property owner in order for it to be recorded.

Having said that, and let's just say this party had terracore's luck in life, and everything as stated really happened. This is where having good legal counsel that would get this entire issue cleared in hours.

Granted, that might cost you a few hundred, maybe a thousand bucks.

BUT any lawyer worth his salt, WOULD get any and all liens discharged, and his fees paid as well as a "token" apology nuisance settlement from OLE in HOURS! 

Not days, weeks, months or pro se filed lawsuits.

Believe it or not, but the man is not out to get you at every turn.

(01-14-2025, 06:24 AM)HiloJulie Wrote: One of the funniest lawyer jokes I ever heard was from a client of mine back almost 20 years ago.

This client was, and with no disrespect to anyone, was, one would say, very openly and non-apologetically homosexual.

But he absolutely just abhorred lawyers in every way shape and form. 

And as such, got himself not into legal trouble, but into monumental legal mess of his own creation simply because he hated lawyers and thought he could do everything by himself. 

So, after we came to his rescue and got his affairs all straightened out, he tells me this joke:

"Why does San Francisco have all the gays and Los Angeles have all the lawyers?"

"San Francisco had first choice!"

I still tell that joke today! (Even though it's probably not all the politically correct anymore)

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: HJ "This is where having good legal counsel that would get this entire issue cleared in hours.
Granted, that might cost you a few hundred, maybe a thousand bucks.
BUT any lawyer worth his salt, WOULD get any and all liens discharged, and his fees paid as well as a "token" apology nuisance settlement from OLE in HOURS!
Not days, weeks, months or pro se filed lawsuits."

This will be my one and only comment in response.

I know what good legal representation can and cannot do.  My first job for 3 years after grad school in Honolulu in the 1970's was for a large and prestigious law firm, with several retired judges among the partners, as well as the cream of the law school crop of associates, interns, paralegals, researchers, etc.

Having said that, after over 40 years on this island, I have found very, very few on-island attorneys that I could recommend to do a competent,  timely resolution of  matters that would seem to be straight forward.  I have a  list of those whom I would  never use again or ever recommend, even for the simplest of matters.

The reality is that most people who go to work every day with limited time off, have a family to take care of,  and then try to have a second income from a business they are getting off the ground, cannot take the hours and hours of time it takes to go 'lawyer shopping'.  After the fact, when my friends and I got together over the holidays, they told me the names of  attorneys they had tried to contact.  Some never returned calls or responded to e-mails  A few who had an actual human being answering calls said the initial consultation would be free, but no work would be undertaken without a ( large for them ) retainer, ranging from $1,000 - $2,000. Meetings would only be scheduled for the convenience of the attorney, not the working people who needed their services. 

And to whom in OLE  would this mythical attorney who is "worth his salt" present his fee , or ask for the nuisance settlement ?  If my friends tried to obtain proof that the loan rate would have been less without the lien, how much of their time, or the attorney's 'billable hours' would it cost ? OLE could rightly claim that no material damage was done, as after everything, no new vehicle was purchased .  My friends would still be out their time while that tangle  could drag on endlessly.

Much of this entire thread has spun around the lack of 'good legal representation' for the people in the subdivisions - this is but one short chapter in the on-going saga.

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: This will be my one and only comment in response.

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: Having said that, after over 40 years on this island, I have found very, very few on-island attorneys that I could recommend to do a competent,  timely resolution of  matters that would seem to be straight forward. 

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: And to whom in OLE  would this mythical attorney who is "worth his salt" present his fee , or ask for the nuisance settlement ? 

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: If my friends tried to obtain proof that the loan rate would have been less without the lien, how much of their time, or the attorney's 'billable hours' would it cost ? OLE could rightly claim that no material damage was done, as after everything, no new vehicle was purchased .  My friends would still be out their time while that tangle  could drag on endlessly.

(01-14-2025, 06:52 AM)Punaperson Wrote: Much of this entire thread has spun around the lack of 'good legal representation' for the people in the subdivisions - this is but one short chapter in the on-going saga.