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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 12-09-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Chas
Could someone please explain the terms of "the bond" to me? Yes I know it's on the HPPOA site but I'd just like the details without having to wade through the PDF.
Interest rate, payments, term, prepayment penalty etc.
I find it hard to believe anyone would enter a loan agreement with a prepayment penalty but maybe that's how these things work?
Thanks.
Chas, the interest rate is 6.972% and that is from the original bond agreement from 2007. As far as "terms", I know there are significant wording in our bylaws so you could check there as far as what is expected of the Association. Other than that, I am not sure.
The association may be able to refinance Jan. 2017 and try for a better rate for the last 10 years of the note. Is it possible that someone would be willing to refinance us with all the negative history from the last 2.5 years? I doubt it. At this point, I believe we still owe $8 mil.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-10-2016
quote:
Originally posted by shockwave rider
JohnD: "There are over 5800 readers on this thread, but only 132 comments , how many of these readers are actual owners in HPP?"
Actually that count is not 5800 separate people, but some people looking in multiple times, how many times have you logged into this thread?
Obviously. Even so....I am sure that there are more than just a few of us.
Another 10% increase...the deal was not to pay to maintain just the major roads! The deal was that all streets would be PAVED or at the very least MANTAINED...alas, we don't have one or the other.
Where there is 0 maintenance then paying fees not only becomes obsolete, but demands our collective attention to it, isn't that fair? If anyone of us gets a 10% increase, be on our electric, gas or medical, we would be concerned wouldn't we?.
This is our own business and only we can do something about it. And it should be of special interest to those who own but do not live here. There are some ROYAL idiots that seem to think that owners of vacant properties should pay even higher fees because the growth from the properties is shrinking the width of the roads!, while being totally oblivious to the fact that it is the Association's duty to keep the easements clear of vegetation AND maintain the viability of EACH and EVERY road. That is what our road fees are for.
This increase is not just another 30 bucks a month but another 250000 or so a year that goes to feed the bottomless pit.
BTW, reading the minutes where death threats to our board president are alleged, was nothing but a good argument as to why we ought to consider contracting the administration of this subdivision to professional hands. No need to pay an innept office staff and equally inept crew 300000 a year given the state of the roads.. it is obvious that their services are not longer needed. The 4 main roads are a liability in many places where the road stripping has dissolved into thin air and overhanging vegetation diminishes visibility.
No, an increase is not justified any longer, let alone an arbitrary number based on "if's". The present Board is asking for a lawsuit.
And to respond to a comment, we should open that can of worms and clean house once and for all. Thd Board of volunteers have shown to be incapable to administer a sizeable subdivision correctly, and this is no longer an issue we ought to continue to ignore.
Audit
Debt restructuring
Professional management
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - Chas - 12-10-2016
quote:
Originally posted by caveat emptor
Chas, the interest rate is 6.972% and that is from the original bond agreement from 2007. As far as "terms", I know there are significant wording in our bylaws so you could check there as far as what is expected of the Association. Other than that, I am not sure.
The association may be able to refinance Jan. 2017 and try for a better rate for the last 10 years of the note. Is it possible that someone would be willing to refinance us with all the negative history from the last 2.5 years? I doubt it. At this point, I believe we still owe $8 mil.
Thanks for the info. With interest rates as low as they are it seems like it would be a really good idea to try and refinance.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 12-10-2016
The present Board is asking for a lawsuit.
So give it to them already.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Seeb - 12-10-2016
The October minutes seam reasonable, but I have not gone to the meetings in a while. The minutes used to no relationship to what actually happened.
It hard to say anything about what the " present " board is because it changes so quick. A good chunk of the board has been on for less than a year and have lived in hpp for less than 5. The fact that over the years that many board members have just left the area kind gives you the idea that the hey went concerned with long term effects. How many of the board members that pasted the bond are still here, I know of one that sold his house as soon as his road was paved and moved.
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 12-10-2016
It is a good idea to refinance the bond, I believe that is one of the new treasurer's priorities. I've mentioned this before, but one of the people who wanted onto the finance committee in the Oct. 2015 membership meeting wanted on to expressly work on refinancing the bond. She was a past board treasurer, board president and her career was in one of the countries largest banks in loans. If the the last board had not fought her (and others) we may have already have had our answer as to whether the Association could refinance. Her hope was to be able to refinance and save possibly $1.5 mil (if memory serves). All that I have ever heard is that going through the bond process was very, very grueling work and all kinds of financial information and records were required in the process. As you can imagine, no one is willing to lend $8 mil (what we currently owe) to a risky organization.
Here are 2 examples of what I mean. Records would show, after a potential lender researches us, that the Association came within minutes of default on the bond payment in 2015. The Treasurer at the time, Janice Ashford (who has now sold out and left for the Mainland) did not make the payment until the Treasurer from 2013 was contacted by the bond Trustee the day it was due asking "where's the money". Through her and another past Treasurer's intervention, Ashford barely was able to make the payment. And then just this year the Trustee contacted the Association telling us we were in a default situation because we had an illegal board president (defaulting on the contract).
Anyone think with that kind of history, let alone the lawsuit that a current director helped to cause and that would be Jo Maynard, any lender would lend us $8 mil?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-10-2016
Johnd you are 100% correct... this is a serious matter. Members should go read the Nov minutes discussing the finances. Rep names are purposely left out so no one knows who said what regarding what the FC should be provided or not...anonymity. It's not the board's decision as it's a membership committee that provides checks and balances for the membership, and has NOTHING to do w/the lawsuit. These kinds of board maneuvers are red flags. But the minutes do say it was Dist 6 rep who made the motion to raise the road fees 10% and Dist 3 newbie seconded it.
7 reps decided to spend our $ chip sealing en masse for a 10 yr commitment outside of a board mtg w/out a plan in place as to how they were going to continue maintaining our roads and easements while the crew chip seals. I say 7 bc 2 reps missed over a year's worth of meetings. Now the GM hints that we should hire more road crew=more $ into the chip seal money pit.
The chip seal project affects everything and is the reason for the neglect we have been experiencing. Poor decisions by an arrogant board and they wish to continue as evidenced by the GM report quoted below.
Why are they so resistant w/providing detailed info to the Finance Committee? We're way behind on our regular required yearly audit and it's only as good as what info is provided. It's Dec and we never got our August Financial statement that is required per our bylaws.
The Fugitive Dust Committee (Dist 5 rep was on the committee) who recommended chip seal never provided any reports or minutes on the website for the membership, nor any presentations that included Q&A, at a membership mtg. So why would the board take their advice on this unproven product and think the road crew could pull off a prof'l job w/out engineer involvement?
By reading the Nov 2016 minutes, we are unbelievably in for more of the same that got us into the backlog of our road and easement maintenance....ok GM, let's blame it on the "increasing population and lack of manpower" as if anyone will believe that. Deflection, game face on, I'm ok you're ok.
"VI. GM Report – Don Morris – He concurred with the President that there is not enough money, man-power, time, for how much work and maintenance needed as he began his report: From July 1, 2016 to October 31, 2016 we have had 452 Road Maintenance Request. That is an average of about 113 requests per month. With that number of requests each month and most of them being for potholes, it makes it impossible to keep up with the demand for road maintenance that the ever increasing population of the subdivision requires, especially given the limited equipment and manpower available. That being said, we are running about 6-8 weeks behind on each request, unless a request falls into our current schedule. That being said, please be patient, the road crew is working very hard everyday to fulfill your road maintenance requests.
Dust Abatement: Still waiting for the rainy weather to abate enough to allow sealing 26th. The road has been prepped for 3 months and we will not be preparing any other roads until we get this 2-mile section done. There is very little material on the road once prepped for chipseal, so it requires a lot of attention with all the rainfall."
(That explains the grass growing through the other chip sealed roads and the already occurring erosion=more $ down the chip seal money pit. Their inexperience w/chip seal is proving evident and it's costing over $350,000 per year of OUR monies....The 10% increase on our road maint fee so they can do more chip sealed roads and tying up road crew time away from their duties=more $ into the chip seal money pit and more road and easement neglect. Maybe their job descripts have been changed to primarily chip seal???)
"Mowing: Road Crew mowed 45 miles of roadway easement. Grasshoppers continues to mow the main roads and cut back the corners and the road crew is also working on corners. The contract will be up in Decembers, so HPPOA will need to decide whether or not to renew. GM just spoke to the owner today and he reported that he has just found a retardant that sterilizes the seeds in the cane grass, so he’s starting that in his spray and the GM is going to check into it for the road crew to use, too.
Weedwacking: He reports now having a two man crew working at only weedwacking part-time specifically on all intersections for six hours, three days a week. They have weedwacked Paradise, from 32nd to 22nd streets. A full schedule of what they have done and will be doing was given and they will be doing this until all intersections are under control for visibility."
Why haven't they caught up on Beach Rd, a main thoroughfare w/pedestrian traffic? It's still cut back only 18-24" after the near miss of hitting a pedestrian complaint bc there was no bail out area. 18-24" is barely enough to get off the road when there's 2 way traffic exceeding 30-35 mph. Paradise, a main drag, has sections with only 12-18" and we're going to renew that guy's contract?
RE: HPP road maintainence - Obie - 12-10-2016
quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
Johnd you are 100% correct... this is a serious matter. Members should go read the Nov minutes discussing the finances. Rep names are purposely left out so no one knows who said what regarding what the FC should be provided or not...anonymity. It's not the board's decision as it's a membership committee that provides checks and balances for the membership, and has NOTHING to do w/the lawsuit. These kinds of board maneuvers are red flags. But the minutes do say it was Dist 6 rep who made the motion to raise the road fees 10% and Dist 3 newbie seconded it.
7 reps decided to spend our $ chip sealing en masse for a 10 yr commitment outside of a board mtg w/out a plan in place as to how they were going to continue maintaining our roads and easements while the crew chip seals. I say 7 bc 2 reps missed over a year's worth of meetings. Now the GM hints that we should hire more road crew=more $ into the chip seal money pit.
The chip seal project affects everything and is the reason for the neglect we have been experiencing. Poor decisions by an arrogant board and they wish to continue as evidenced by the GM report quoted below.
Why are they so resistant w/providing detailed info to the Finance Committee? We're way behind on our regular required yearly audit and it's only as good as what info is provided. It's Dec and we never got our August Financial statement that is required per our bylaws.
The Fugitive Dust Committee (Dist 5 rep was on the committee) who recommended chip seal never provided any reports or minutes on the website for the membership, nor any presentations that included Q&A, at a membership mtg. So why would the board take their advice on this unproven product and think the road crew could pull off a prof'l job w/out engineer involvement?
By reading the Nov 2016 minutes, we are unbelievably in for more of the same that got us into the backlog of our road and easement maintenance....ok GM, let's blame it on the "increasing population and lack of manpower" as if anyone will believe that. Deflection, game face on, I'm ok you're ok.
"VI. GM Report – Don Morris – He concurred with the President that there is not enough money, man-power, time, for how much work and maintenance needed as he began his report: From July 1, 2016 to October 31, 2016 we have had 452 Road Maintenance Request. That is an average of about 113 requests per month. With that number of requests each month and most of them being for potholes, it makes it impossible to keep up with the demand for road maintenance that the ever increasing population of the subdivision requires, especially given the limited equipment and manpower available. That being said, we are running about 6-8 weeks behind on each request, unless a request falls into our current schedule. That being said, please be patient, the road crew is working very hard everyday to fulfill your road maintenance requests.
Dust Abatement: Still waiting for the rainy weather to abate enough to allow sealing 26th. The road has been prepped for 3 months and we will not be preparing any other roads until we get this 2-mile section done. There is very little material on the road once prepped for chipseal, so it requires a lot of attention with all the rainfall."
(That explains the grass growing through the other chip sealed roads and the already occurring erosion=more $ down the chip seal money pit. Their inexperience w/chip seal is proving evident and it's costing over $350,000 per year of OUR monies....The 10% increase on our road maint fee so they can do more chip sealed roads and tying up road crew time away from their duties=more $ into the chip seal money pit and more road and easement neglect. Maybe their job descripts have been changed to primarily chip seal???)
"Mowing: Road Crew mowed 45 miles of roadway easement. Grasshoppers continues to mow the main roads and cut back the corners and the road crew is also working on corners. The contract will be up in Decembers, so HPPOA will need to decide whether or not to renew. GM just spoke to the owner today and he reported that he has just found a retardant that sterilizes the seeds in the cane grass, so he’s starting that in his spray and the GM is going to check into it for the road crew to use, too.
Weedwacking: He reports now having a two man crew working at only weedwacking part-time specifically on all intersections for six hours, three days a week. They have weedwacked Paradise, from 32nd to 22nd streets. A full schedule of what they have done and will be doing was given and they will be doing this until all intersections are under control for visibility."
Why haven't they caught up on Beach Rd, a main thoroughfare w/pedestrian traffic? It's still cut back only 18-24" after the near miss of hitting a pedestrian complaint bc there was no bail out area. 18-24" is barely enough to get off the road when there's 2 way traffic exceeding 30-35 mph. Paradise, a main drag, has sections with only 12-18" and we're going to renew that guy's contract?
Are you the person calling in the death threats ?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-10-2016
quote:Wow what a horrible thing to say!!! Nasty! If I recall, you don't even live in HPP. Most of us think it's someone on the board who is doing this but perhaps you know who it is...I recall now, you're pro chip seal.
Originally posted by Obie
Are you the person calling in the death threats ?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-11-2016
The chip seal project affects everything and is the reason for the neglect we have been experiencing. Poor decisions by an arrogant board and they wish to continue as evidenced by the GM report quoted below.
I would like to clarify the above statement I made earlier. The current male board members weren't involved in the board and mgmt decisions over the past 2 yrs that brought us where we are today. Four of them were appt'd by the board very recently. The current male board members inherited this mess with the backlog of our road and easement maint, and highly irregular financial issues.
It's up to the men to try and move forward making decisions based on what is in the best interest for the entire population who travel on our roads daily. Hopefully they will agree that road safety issues and catching up on all our road and easement maintenance takes precedence over anything else on their plate right now. We all also need road material laid down on our roads...it's way overdue. Filling potholes is just a band aid.