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+--- Thread: Control your EFFING DOGS! (/showthread.php?tid=2077)
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Guest - 04-26-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Beachboy
.....
For the majority of you who are posting here on this subject you must be careful. Hurting a local's dog is taking your life into your own hands. They may appear to you as just dogs tied up to their dog houses on the side of their owners property. Gettting neither love or attention. But do something to those dogs, or say something to their owners and then you run the risk of turning your new found paradise into a living hell!!
Now as far as dogs running loose. I have two thoughts on that. If you know where dogs are on the loose, avoid that area!!! Now what's so hard about that? To me that's the simple solution, and really the best way to go. Why start a confrontation?
I'm simply amazed with the new residents to Hawaii who are constantly whining about things they aren't use to. Keep in my folk, you are the guest of the aina here. How do you think the indigenous people feel? They could really complain, their whole world has been literally turned upside down! You think Puna is great & beautiful now, imagine it 30 years ago before all the mainland arrivals came! Think about all the "crap" that the indigenous people had to deal with. For the most part the local people have put up with all the nonsense that the new arrivals bring. With the exception of a few out burst here and there. It's pretty under control right now, but that could all change at the drop of a dime.
Bottomline:
Indigenous people have dogs. Dogs for hunting, and dogs for guarding one's property, and a lot of barking is what they do. If you don't like it. I suggest getting some ear plugs. But say something or do something to that Indigenous Family about their pet and you run the risk of turning your paradise into a living hell!
Life is truly to short to worry about dogs barking or frogs crocking!.........
Beachboy - This is "Must Read" material. Would you mind if I posted it to my Advertiser Blog?
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Damons Digest
Acceptance will take you further in life then Denial ever will
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - oink - 04-26-2008
Beachboy,
I thought I was done with this topic but I have to respond. I partially agree with you, but only partially. Anyplace in the country and probably the world, if you harm someones dog you risk a confrontation. Indigenous has nothing to do with it. The people you refer to could and probably should be categorized as rednecks. Before you get you panties in a wad, realize I don't mean that in a bad way. I imagine I get placed in that category and it doesn't bother me. Go to rural Fla or any place else where it's country, especially in areas where dogs are traditionally used for hunting and you will find the same attitudes. Dogs are a greater part of the culture and are often considered tools more so than pets although there is often great loyalty to some dogs.
You can't always avoid walking where the dangerous dogs roam loose. Most “redneck” dog owners I know would not long tolerate a dog that kept getting loose and threatening people off the dog owners property. If they couldn't keep the dog restrained they would put it down themselves. I imagine one of your more responsible indigenous “rednecks” would do the same. I also don't imagine one of your indigenous “rednecks” would long tolerate having a dog try to “get” him when he walked down the street. He would either go to blows with the dog owner or otherwise solve the problem in such a way that it could still go to blows if the owner failed to resolve the issue. I know neither would long tolerate a threatening or persistently annoying dog on their property. If they could find out who the owner was most would notify the owner but patience for the situation would be short. As rural areas get more populated, others are less tolerant of incessant dog barking. It's not just newcomers, it population density. I have neighbors with several dogs. It was a deteriorating situation until they made better efforts as a result of my escalating responses. Some barking is ok, but not continuous. Where's the warning alarm if the dogs bark at everything.
Until the police decide to enforce relevant laws regarding dogs, inconsiderate “redneck” dog owners should not be surprised to get a “redneck” response.
After reading what I just wrote, I do have some concerns about being misunderstood and eliciting angry responses. I am actually very tolerant about these situations and I don't expect perfection. As population density increases it becomes more necessary to have an effective police that can mediate or remedy such issues so violence doesn't result. Until such time, I guess we just have to do the best that we can with what he have.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - DrJ - 04-26-2008
I, too, have avoided this topic, but I agree with Oink. To say that it's an indigenous way of life and you risk insulting them is over-simplistic. It's always easy to say, "this is the way we do it here, deal with it or leave" whether you live in Hawaii, California or Sweden doesn't make it right or the right way to handle things. People should have the reasonable right to not have to listen to dogs barking at 3am, or have dogs spread their garbage out over their yards. That's why we do have laws. Just because people ignore the laws doesn't make them right and you should move.
Is there an easy solution? Obviously not by the length and testy tone of this topic, but telling your neighbors to put up and shut up just because they are new to the area is wrong no matter where you are from.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - JWFITZ - 04-26-2008
I will put a bark collar around my neck and restrain myself from commenting, mostly.
I'd say, frankly, now you see the issue.
As for the newcomer crap, I live in a community where a fair number ar Hawaiian barely speak english. I'm a newcomer, but they hate the dogs too.
What is the indigenous Hawaiian breed of dog, by the way?
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Guest - 04-26-2008
quote:Sadly, it is now extinct [
Originally posted by JWFITZ
What is the indigenous Hawaiian breed of dog, by the way?
]It was said that they seldom barked and ran with the hogs. Early in the 19th century, other dogs began to breed with the Hawaiian Poi Dog and the breed was no longer pure. Years later a breeding program was started at the Honolulu Zoo in attempts to reconstruct the breed. After 12 years of trying it was deemed a failure and the program was discontinued........[
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Damons Digest
Acceptance will take you further in life then Denial ever will
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - JWFITZ - 04-26-2008
Funny about that: extinct dog. Mostly I see Rottweiler types, which is the most Haole of all Haole dogs, preferred by the Nazis but breed by the Caesars. I like them myself, but the males at least don't bark more or less at all if not abused or neglected, so I'd disagree a bit on this. Nice dogs though, can't disagree with that. Where I come from they're used to hunt bears and cougars.
A dog that got poisoned on my property would have to dig under two locked gates, one energized, to get at stuff. And they do, but less now that I've turned up the gain. I'm pretty well traveled and have a pretty fair experience with, ahem, "indigenous" people. Human ethics are more or less the same wherever you go. There no one, no race in the world that would condemn me for that, certainly the LEAST of all places here in Hawaii. I'm "indigenous" myself, a Gaul, somewhere. My family has been on the run for 1500 years. I feel your pain.
The FIRST encounter with locals in my neighborhood was about running dogs, and the statement I heard, from someone of the proper race, born and bred here, was, I transliterate: "nobody's dog has a right to run like that. If you see it, shoot it."
Has anyone, ever, in any case, suggesting pitching snail bait in anyones yard, or blasting penned dogs in drive by shootings? I mean seriously? Reading comprehension? Coward? Snail bait is a suggestion for Auntie Someone, who's taro patch has all been tore up and is too scared to leave her porch. I know that Auntie Someone personally. she lives not far up the road from me. She's far to proud to ask for help, but I give her a lift to town every chance I see her.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Guest - 04-26-2008
[
]I think the point of Beachboys post, is that you don't mess with locals and the way they have lived for awhile.
Kind of like the term "When in Rome... do as the Romans".
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Damons Digest
Acceptance will take you further in life then Denial ever will
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - JWFITZ - 04-26-2008
Actually, I'd expect Beachboy and I have more in common than I do with many or most on this board. We probably both like Muzzy broadheads. Actually, I've got A LOT of respect for for very justified resentment many "locals" may feel for mainland money coming in and throwing it's weight around. It's disgusting, frankly. Where I disagree is that native Hawaiians, or elsewise, have a local tradition of untrained, feral dogs. That's bunk. No one that HUNTS dogs, for real, has an untrained barky dog, as you can't hunt an untrained barky dog, as all the game disappears the second the dog is out of the truck. No one who has a dog to scare off burglers has an untrained, barky dog, either, as you're so used to hearing the dog bark all the time that you won't take note if someone is ripping off the tailgate of your truck. No body who has a dog they care about it enough to come to blows about it feeds it so poorly that it needs to sneak around and raid composting toilets to stay minimally fed. Deadbeats of various races and backgrounds DO have untrained, neglected, half starved barky dogs. There are deadbeats all over the world. No one likes them; but they're prone to wave whatever banner they're given as an excuse to blame someone else for their predicament.
When I worked in Juvenile Justice, years back just out of college, it was in central and northern Idaho, a pretty rough and wild place, and in many ways much like here--a place I really loved. A fair number of my kids were Skinheads and a very tough bunch indeed. They were not prone to bark. I found them very easy to get along with, all in all. The complaints they had and the reason they were violent, to my mind, weren't ignorant in the least--mostly they were very well thought out, and well founded. Same as here. Unfortunately, they have very little outlet to constructively expend their frustration as we're talking about a very REPRESSED people in a very real way.
There is going to be a day when some Che type arises and convinces the Skinhead, the East LA gangster, the Hawaiian, etc, et al, that they have the same complaint and the same enemy, which is true, and that they've all been sold a bunch of crap, mostly believing that they should fight against each other rather than those that really hold them down. . .
And, boy howdy, that will be interesting.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - MarkP - 04-26-2008
I confess I don't know much about the relationship that people who keep dogs for security have with their dogs and I may have made a rather sweeping generalization. Nevertheless I know that there are some people who treat animals totally as objects. Boy, I suddenly sound like some PETA type which I definitely am not. In fact I was reacting to some earlier posts that in my view were not taking a hard enough view about what an animal becomes when it is neither cared for or controlled. This would rule out dogs that are confined to their own property, sheltered, and fed, so I picked a bad example. I never meant to endorse harming an animal that is on its own property. I also did not mean to draw such an exclusive definition of what a pet is. I too used to chain my dog up when I was not there. She started trying to bite people when chained.
I used to have a handyman type job that took me all over the state. I visited the entire socio-economic spectrum from wealthy haole mainlanders in gated communities in Kona to poor people in Kalihi to local people in Puna and Waianae and basically everyone was great. I always felt welcome. Kind of strange really but it reflects well on Hawaii and society in general. I only had a couple of troublesome customers. One was a snotty, wealthy, haole older man who thought I was lying to him and kept insisting that he could make trouble for me in some unspecified way but nevertheless it made me uneasy. The other was an older local man who threw a puppy. Perhaps I should have called the cops on him but I thought that perhaps grandpa was a little senile and the rest of the family were already trying to hold it together as best they could. In other words I was trying to see things from someone elses viewpoint and although his casual and callous treatment of a cringing and desparate to please puppy made me want to projectile vomit, I knew that everyone sees things differently, has different challenges to face, and finds different solutions and who am I to judge them.
Anyway I want to make it clear that I am drawing no conclusions about race or social stratum here. There are plenty of local folks out there who are richer, smarter, and better looking than I am who could get a cheap thrill from rattling my cage and plenty of haole folk who are screwed up enough to throw a puppy. I am not advocating killing anybody's animals. I do not think that keeping dogs for security is improper. I just wanted to tell it like I saw it.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - JWFITZ - 04-27-2008
Likewise, thought I'd weigh in again a last time this morning lest my posts get misread or partially read and I get accused of being some Aryan Dog Poisoning Concentration Camp running screwball. Far from it. I'm a pretty passionate sort for sure and I get to writing--look out. I can be a bit of a firehose at times.
I'm just some guy who'd love to have a full nights sleep on a regular basis and not have a raided garden. I feel sorry for a lot of people, and a lot of dogs too. I'm very empathetic of any group that hasn't been given a fair shake, and tend to be an advocate for anyone who's life is made a hassle by someone else inconsiderateness.
As for the garden thing, it seems cured now, but it took a fair investment to get there.
The Aryan Dog Poisoning Fellow lives up the street, actually, come to think of it. Joking, kinda.
Lastly, I've got to say that in the time I've spent in Hawaii, dogs aside, it has been a completely wonderful experience and I haven't recieved any attitude from anyone anywhere that wouldn't or couldn't be recieved as pure aloha. There are problems here for sure, but I'm here by choice and wouldn't change a thing, ultimately, if it meant any of it would be lost.