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+--- Thread: If you have a dog (/showthread.php?tid=10158)
RE: If you have a dog - oink - 01-27-2013
#1) Based only on what can be seen in the video, the shooting seems very questionable.
#2) No idea. Can't see squat in the video. Maybe yes, maybe no?
#3) Based on what can be seen in the video, the shooting seems at least premature.
#4) Based upon what can seen and heard in the video, especially considering it was felony stop for a suspected (armed?) robbery, with serious concern that they were dealing with armed felons, I'll have to go with the cops on this one. The dogs would have been a dangerous distraction (at least) at the wrong time, which would need to be resolved immediately.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: If you have a dog - rainyjim - 01-27-2013
What kind of trouble could you get in for shooting your neighbors dog if you are not a police officer?
Never underestimate the power of the dark side.
RE: If you have a dog - MarkP - 01-27-2013
quote:
Originally posted by csgray
It seems like Mark doesn't think anything short of ripped flesh counts. I am not sure why it is supposed to be Tom's responsibility to "document" injuries, that would be the job of our tax payer funded law enforcement.
My comments have been completely misinterpreted. I basically believe Tom, who seems like a level-headed kind of guy. Nevertheless there is a huge amount of what is written here and on other threads that is hand-wringing and preaching to the choir. The bottom line is the police will require documentation. They deal with kooks all day long that think they saw UFOs. While I believe Tom, it is reasonable to ask why. In this case it is mostly because he is my internet buddy and shares many viewpoints with me, for what that is worth. In other words, in a court of law, diddly squat. While my initial comment about silence being deafening was overly dramatic and ill considered (it led people to the wrong conclusion) it is in essence how I feel. All the talk about how normal citizens shouldn't have to go through this and how unfair it is is all true and irrelevant. The questions about documentation are valid. The fact that Tom has been documenting all along does not relieve him or anyone of the small responsibility to answer the question in a polite forum like this. Or not. I can understand not always being polite if you are in a stressful situation.
I feel this is a case of confusing what is right and fair with what is practical, and of killing the messenger.
For my part I would condone using lethal force against a dog that repeatedly threatened me on my property. At that point I think issues of humaneness have been overshadowed by a greater need. At the same time the root of the problem is indeed the crazy owner, who might respond violently. It is therefor important not to make things worse by focusing on how wronged you are and how justified the extrajudicial killing of the dog might be.
It is not whether I think anything short of ripped flesh counts, it is whether the police do and how believable the complainant is. As for whether it is Tom's job to document his claims, yes that is how it works. You would want the same if someone was seeking action against you. Yes, it sucks. We wouldn't be having this conversation if it didn't.
RE: If you have a dog - Guest - 01-27-2013
I think that Tom sharing his video would be very helpful. I intend to share mine if and when I meet this dog. Concrete evidence like a video is very helpful when trying to sell the threat of a 120 pound monster who almost killed an infant.
“Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.”
-Ron Paul
RE: If you have a dog - dmbwest - 01-27-2013
Oink,
Is "bear spray" the same thing ? Just wondering.
aloha,
pog
RE: If you have a dog - MarkP - 01-27-2013
All else being said, I am guilty of not wanting to let anyone else have the last word or put something over on me. In his hour of need I do not want to be the one to add to Tom's burden by seeming to second guess him or in any way add to his emotional workload. For that, I apologize.
RE: If you have a dog - MarkP - 01-27-2013
I wondered about bear spray too. Relatively accurate, has some range. Heard you have to keep track of the wind direction to avoid getting caught in the cloud after the fact. Heck, if it'll stop a grizzly...
RE: If you have a dog - Obie - 01-27-2013
The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat.
Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper.
RE: If you have a dog - MarkP - 01-27-2013
I've heard that one a hundred times. The threat of bears is greatly exaggerated. Locals I have spoken with say carry the bear spray. There are those who suggest carrying a powerful handgun as back-up although some question the effectiveness of a handgun against grizzlies. Locals I have spoken with say just make sure to file the front sight off. Apparently it hurts less when the bear bends you over and puts it.....
RE: If you have a dog - VancouverIslander - 01-27-2013
I've been close enough to a Grizzly to have it tell me in no uncertain terms that I was to depart respectfully, which I did until I was out of sight, then I ran faster than I ever thought possible for a human being running down a side hill covered in stumps and downed trees three layers deep. I've also seen them at a distance and they are a beautiful animal. They have fur a foot thick (or more) and are the most powerful land animal in North America. They can be killed with a hand gun, but it's not a very sure thing by any means. First, if you shoot them in the head as they charge the bullet (even from a high powered rifle) is likely to bounce off due to the thick skull and the extreme slope. It's hard to get a shot at the vitals from the front. When in Grizzly country Moose hunting, we keep a semi automatic 12 gauge with 1 1/8 oz. slugs loaded. The instructions are: point it at the bear and keep pulling the trigger until it drops or it eats you.
As Tom's dog situation, I'm sure the dog was aggressive enough to scare the average person and that Tom has every right to be concerned. The dog in his video that went after the cop *could* have been playful or could have been vicious (with some dogs it's hard to tell unless you know them well). It was definitely the right call to taser it. Owners of dogs who behave like this need to socialize their dogs better. Have strangers give them treats, Introduce them to random people on walks. Sadly, when owners don't raise their dogs properly, it's other people and the dogs themselves that pay the price. I hope that one day dog owners will be held more responsible for their dogs actions. I wouldn't give the cop a hard time for having his pistol drawn. He didn't pull the trigger and may have still had the safety on. In fact, the cops should be applauded for their handling of that situation.