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+--- Thread: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th (/showthread.php?tid=6893)
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - missydog1 - 02-26-2010
Greg wrote:
quote:Having read the entirety of their original environmental assessment from when they applied to lease the state lands adjacent to the Belly Acres parcel, I have to say there is nothing in the writing that suggests they are right-brain handicapped. The document is very well written and shows they are 100% on top of their trip when it comes to saying the right things to get approved.
I think you are mistaken to think that SPACE is "basically thumbing their nose at the people." They have admitted to exceeding the limits of their permit and are attempting to rectify the situation.
As an artist myself, I can tell you that creative people think a little differently than those of the more "right brained" and need grounding occasionally to stay the arena(my wife helps with this). It's part of the process; positive, progressive, and quite different from the constraints of a legal document.
I don't see SPACE as thumbing their nose at anyone; But meeting new needs as they come up, and doing it as creatively and expeditiously as possible. They aren't violating the law as much as influencing and shaping it.
http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20Documents/EA_and_EIS_Online_Library/Hawaii/1990s/1998-11-23-HA-FEA-HAWAIIS-VOLCANO-CIRCUS-BUILDINGS.pdf
I can't give anyone who can put this kind of assessment together a free pass based on "creative types don't get it." Again and again I was impressed while reading this at how Ellis addressed every possible detriment and objection very skillfully and politically.
So I cannot buy into the thinking that they weren't fully aware when they began transgressing. They had already been caught transgressing the zoning rules during the application process.
Near the end of this assessment, which is all going extremely well for the applicants, there is this letter from the Planning Commission:
quote:It appears to me that Belly Acres/Village Green was "busted" here for already conducting activities that required a special use permit without applying for one. They applied for an SUP as part of their request to lease adjacent State Land, and in the process discussed the existing headquarters on Belly Acres. It came to the PC's attention that --hello-- they were already doing this project on ag land without a proper permit. Correct me if I am wrong by inferring this is what happened.
"We also note within your letter that the existing headquarters for Hawaii's Volcano Circus is situated on the adjoining property identified by TMK: 1-2-09: 34. This property maintains the same land use designations as Parcel 15. Our records do not indicate any land use reviews or approvals by the County or State to permit the establishment of the headquarters on lands designated Agricultural. We ask that you contact this office immediately to discuss this matter."
The pattern is not that they always got the right permits and then they just didn't realize they might need to update their scope. They applied for a permit when they tried to expand and the land they desired wasn't something they could buy from a private owner. It was a large state-owned parcel. And that made it necessary for them to get involved with the legal process. That is the story told in the documents. Of course I would be interested in hearing any other history. I can't find the terms of their existing special use permit online.
Cat, did you see I posted the TMK as you asked? And it's in the letter above.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - missydog1 - 02-26-2010
Ah, replies came up when I was writing.
Bob, do you have the text of what they promised to do and not do? Would love to see it.
terry.way - bringing in England doesn't help. Those pubs may have been there for three hundred years for all we know. I think the European concept is lovely. What I don't think is lovely is taking a non-commercial parcel, applying to conduct a purely educational facility for children, getting approved for that, and then starting activities that require a zoning change!
Rob said
>>> I think that you need to consider that large landowners were handed a "get out of responsibilties free" card by the county in 1959. Everyone else gets to live with the result. As population increases the problems of lack of planning and subsidizing 1950's developers increases.
Rob, I totally agree. I think what was done was criminal. I keep telling people to read Land and Power. I'm just talking about the current vision of the Planning Director as he expresses it. Personally, I would love to CPR my land as I don't use it all and if there could be another dwelling it could be fully utilized AND probably more crops would be grown. BUT I bought it knowing the zoning and I cannot do that. I can accept that, but selective enforcement irritates me.
My neighbor has an art gallery and sometimes she has live music on Sundays. And conducts on site painting classes, which increases vehicles. Not at all permitted; her whole structure doesn't exist on TMK maps. I am not going to complain. But if she did it more often, and more amplified, that would not fly with me, because at that point her enterprise would be wiping out my ability to enjoy my property. Which would be wrong. But I'm not writing about this because I'm projecting my situation onto the Seaview deal. I'm not worried that the activity where I live is going to get out of control. I simply believe that zoning protections matter.
People commit their life savings and relocate to a specific spot on the planet with the understanding that zoning is a factor, and I strongly object to the idea that "community good" should cast them as bad guys for objecting when something expands beyond its approved scope. Time for it to find another site. Time for the community to help it find a site that is suitable for the new level of usage.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - missydog1 - 02-26-2010
Last post on this for now ...[
] it is mostly quotes from the 1998 proposal that I linked above. It's a long document so this is all out of context for reasons of brevity, but here is the link again for context:http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20Documents/EA_and_EIS_Online_Library/Hawaii/1990s/1998-11-23-HA-FEA-HAWAIIS-VOLCANO-CIRCUS-BUILDINGS.pdf
These are the assurances made by Ellis re the the activities that would be conducted and impact. You will note that some lines repeat the same thing. I repeat them to show how many different times they said there would be little to no traffic, noise, or impact on neighbors.
quote:(note, the nearest neighbors for this application were the Village Green/Belly Acres, so it stating that the only neighbors were fully supportive, they were referring to themselves.)
An administrative building and facilities for on-site training is essential for us to maintain and develop our programs.
We plan to use the 4 acres to provide a headquarters for HVCs education programs. Facilities would include cindered access roads, an administrative building/pavilion for rehearsals and training, a caretakers cabin, and approximately 12 small (12*xl6') student/staff bunkhouses.
Numbers using the facilities would vary during the year. Regular weekly classes, workshops and rehearsals would involve about 25 people entering and leaving the land, perhaps six times a week between the hours of 10 am - 9 p.m.
The traffic would be light since most of the students would be transported in our company vans, some would arrive on foot or by bicycle and a few in cars. The maximum number of people using the facility at one time would be during the annual winter and summer camps with about 40 students and ten staff attending for a period of two weeks in the winters and four weeks in the summers.
It is not our intention to hold public performances in this facility. Our project will have very little environmental impact since the facilities to be built will not be visible from any existing public roads nor any existing residences.
The parking area will be sufficient to accommodate the number of cars expected.
3.2 Socioeconomic Characteristics
The proposed action will not involve any relocation of residents apart from a caretaker, nor will the action induce or inhibit population growth. The proposed facility is intended to service the existing and future population of the area. Although governed by existing zoning and County land use policies the proposed action is also not expected to significantly affect surrounding land values.
The anticipated traffic should not be significant.
B. The desired use shall not adversely affect surrounding properties. The Board of Directors of Kalapana Seaview Estates representing the subdivision Residents affected by the facility have expressed their absolute support for the desired use.
Similarly the owners of the only other occupied adjacent property, the Village Green Society, have also expressed their support for this project. The potential impacts to the surrounding properties, if any, could be noise and traffic. However, the volume of traffic to be generated by staff and students at the facility should be very low. Any noise associated with the proposed use should also be quite minimal and within normal working hours. That factor, combined withthe fact that homes in the immediate area are quite sparse, should not make the requested use an adverse one to the surrounding properties.
No added school facilities demand should be necessary, as the requested use is a service orientated one. It is a use that services the existing population and not one that serves as a catalyst for more people to reside in the area
The requested use would not interfere with any of the existing surrounding uses. Its noise and vehicular impacts will be negligible.
The requested use is not part of any larger project or phased development. It is intended to service the needs of the existing population. It is not a growth-inducive type of use
The requested use will not involve extensive on-site improvements.
Environmental impacts (noise air etc.) should be negligible.
The proposed project will not detrimentally affect air or water quality or ambient noise level.
The only discernible air quality impacts associated with the facility would be from the vehicular traffic. The frequency and volume of traffic, however, due to the limited number of days the programs will be held would be too small to create any appreciable impact.
I fully grant that the concept of helping troubled youth here is creative, innovative, and beneficial. The letters from the supporters are impressive. The document preparation is impressively written and thorough.
However, throughout this application, it states that the entire concept is to provide classes for children so that they can perform in other venues. It is all about children, not adults.
There will be no performances. The noise will be restricted to regular business hours. The traffic will be negligible; in fact, many students will come on bicycles or a school van. There will be on site parking for all visitors.
There won't be any impact on adjacent properties. That is a crucial aspect of getting the permit. No significant impact.
Far from what we hear now about people moving to Seaview because of what SPACE offers, they emphasize that the project will not attract growth, nor will it attract visitors from other communities.
S.P.A.C.E. got the permit by promising to make no impact on its neighbors! That is a commitment. How can I respect an organization that ignores the commitment it makes on its application once it gets what it wants?
They applied to add some facilities for their school. The school is not at risk. Their supposed mission is not threatened. Why shouldn't they be held to the conditions they stated? They wrote fifty plus pages of proposal to sell a specific activity. Doesn't that mean anything to people?
I would not be shocked by all of this if S.P.Å.C.E. had developed as an entirely alternative communal project in the relatively unregulated remoteness of Puna, which never entered into the legal process. OK, a bunch of hippies, I would think, and support their getting their act together now that times have changed.
What bothers me is that they are sophisticated grant and proposal writers who have terrific organizational skills, who proved they know how to negotiate the legal requirements, who got what they wanted based on promises and then reneged.
Chris Yuen was their original attorney and now he's the Planning Director, so if they still retain his support they certainly have big guns from the establishment on their side.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Pilgrim - 02-26-2010
Kathy,
You have made a lot of good points on this issue.
Just one correction. Chris Yuen is no longer the planning director.
The P.D. goes out with the mayor and so Chris's tenure ended with Harry Kim. Bobbie Jean Leithead-Todd is the current director under Billy Kenoi.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - missydog1 - 02-26-2010
Thanks, Pilgrim. I was not aware of that. Chris Yuen had been it for so long ... and I didn't know his term was tied to Kim's.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - wyatt - 02-27-2010
Got a call from Graham, due to the Tsunami warning the S.P.A.C.E. communty meeting is canceled. Will be rescheduled.
Mahalo
Richard
"Yearn to understand first and to be understood second."
-- Beca Lewis Allen
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Ghoffeld - 02-27-2010
Aloha All, The Community information meeting, the announcement which has inspired this discussion, has been postponed because of the tsunami warning in our area. It turns out that SPACE may be a necessary part of emergency service for our community. We will be here as needed for our neighbors, whether they support us or not.
Garry & Cyd
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Graham - 02-27-2010
The Community Relations Meeting has been rescheduled for Saturday March 6th 10am at SPACE.
Everyone is welcome (with the exception of the one person who has regretfully had to be served with a no trespassing order, she has been invited to submit written testimony)
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Rob Tucker - 02-27-2010
I have edited the new date into the topic heading and opening post.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Kapohocat - 02-27-2010
quote:
Originally posted by Ghoffeld
Aloha All, The Community information meeting, the announcement which has inspired this discussion, has been postponed because of the tsunami warning in our area. It turns out that SPACE may be a necessary part of emergency service for our community. We will be here as needed for our neighbors, whether they support us or not.
Garry & Cyd
Just curiosity because I went to friends to evacuate,and since this event is really fresh in everyone's experience what services did SPACE provide for the community in this emergency?
This might be a good list to have for the future amending of the SUP process.