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+--- Thread: Control your EFFING DOGS! (/showthread.php?tid=2077)
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Kelena - 05-10-2008
Yep. Another enforcement issue. Pit bulls, and anything resembling a pit bull, should be banned on the Big Island. Period. Some might argue that they need them for protection. No, you need a working, well-paid police force for protection.
Loose dogs are a danger to life and limb. Even if the loose dog is NOT aggressive, they may try to approach a leashed dog that doesn't like other dogs. That happens to me with sufficient frequency here that I am armed with pepper-spray, a club and rocks whenever I walk my dogs.
Had to call the police once, and thankfully, they came right out, with repercussions for the irresponsible dog owner that let three dogs aggress mine until I pepper-sprayed the hell out of them.....and almost pepper-sprayed him. Called the police on the spot because he threatened to batter me. They arrived in 5 minutes, and detained him. Dogs were not licensed or leashed. He was fined. He avoids me now.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - kani-lehua - 05-11-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Glen
Yep. Another enforcement issue. Pit bulls, and anything resembling a pit bull, should be banned on the Big Island. Period. Some might argue that they need them for protection. No, you need a working, well-paid police force for protection.
Loose dogs are a danger to life and limb. Even if the loose dog is NOT aggressive, they may try to approach a leashed dog that doesn't like other dogs. That happens to me with sufficient frequency here that I am armed with pepper-spray, a club and rocks whenever I walk my dogs.
Had to call the police once, and thankfully, they came right out, with repercussions for the irresponsible dog owner that let three dogs aggress mine until I pepper-sprayed the hell out of them.....and almost pepper-sprayed him. Called the police on the spot because he threatened to batter me. They arrived in 5 minutes, and detained him. Dogs were not licensed or leashed. He was fined. He avoids me now.
it's happened to me many times. the irresponsible dog owners don't care and think either my dogs or i have the problem. not them. i can't even walk them on the beach anymore with all the off leashed dogs.
kailua, o'ahu is pretty windy and i'm not sure the pepper spray would work. think i'm going to have to get some kind of club/stick. today, no problems walking them on the main thoroughfare.
malia paha o lohe aku
perhaps they will hear
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Guest - 05-14-2008
quote:
Originally posted by dirk1609
Please keep us posted on the neighbor reaction. I have never had any luck.
Through a calm discussion with my neighbor, they agreed that it was determined that the "puppy" does need to be tied up and not allowed to just roam.
They apologized numerous times and I hope this issue is squashed.
I did tell them if their puppy comes after my son and I again...that I would have no problem kicking their dog away from my child.
They said, that would not be a problem with them... however, please don't kick the puppy so hard that it may damage him.... I told them... "You don't have to worry about me kicking your dog, if your dog stays on your property"... they will now kindly oblige.... I believe.... Other wise... I will punt this dog if he threatens my son again.
People control your effing dogs! I'm glad my neighbor is doing the best they can...and they now know my position on what I will do to their dog if it attempts to jump on my son again unexpectantly.
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Moved
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - dirk1609 - 05-25-2008
Thought id bounce this back up to give a update on out neighbor that currently has here house up for sale do to the neighbor's dogs.
Over this holiday weekend the 5 dogs her neighbors have have been going nuts barking. So nuts that her renter on the next property, a major source of income, came to her to complain. The dogs have robbed her of sleep over the last two nights and she has called police numerous times. We are assuming that her neighbors are away for the holiday weekend. The police showed up the first night, and the bogs were barking the entire time they monitored. Since the neighbors were not home the police posted a 1st warning at the door an left. Now the police have left, a warning is posted but the problem has not changed and the dogs continue to bark all night. The police are called again the second night and a 2nd notice is posted. There is still no one is home, so all the police did is post more paper on their door while the dogs continued to bark all night. I wonder how long this could go on before the police would actually do something. The next day she noticed that most of the dogs, they were chained to trees, had wrapped themselves so tight around the tree that they could not move. She untangled the dogs, noticed they had no food, then went home to call the humane society. After she told them about the dogs tangled up and with no food they immediately told here that she could have charges pressed against her for trespassing. She asked who could do something about the abused and loud dogs and they said to call the Police. She called the police and was told to call the humane society. What a nightmare. Once again a HUGE problem and the person that is not creating the problem seems to have no rights, and no one to help.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - missydog1 - 05-26-2008
It IS a nightmare ...
I can tell you from my experience what the police want you (you being anyone who is suffering) to do. They want it to be a neighbor to neighbor "civil matter." They do not want to enforce this ordinance and will do so reluctantly.
However, there is a complaint process, and the police need to take a complaint from you once they have verified that the barking is in excess of the allowed time. IIRC, the police are witnesses to YOUR complaint. You have to take your neighbor to court under the ordinance. Now, this MAY have changed in the last few years. I was given this info back in 2002 during a similar incident where owners went away on vacation leaving howling miserable dogs.
And my experience was in a subdivision with CC&R's that prohibited letting dogs bark, but that was no help as they had no enforcement personnel.
Anyhow, the alternative is to get an attorney to write a letter and threaten a lawsuit. This is what the police mean by "a civil matter." 1) Discuss with neighbor and try to resolve. If doesn't work 2) hire attorney.
While I am not an attorney, my personal experience in this area is that the people who are moving and having tenant complaints have grounds for a nuisance suit. They are losing enjoyment of property and they are possibly losing rental income. A good attorney should be able to make the neighbors sit up and pay attention as they are looking at thousands of dollars in damages, especially if you sell and lose money on your home.
Like I said, this is lay advice, talk to an attorney.
Again from personal experience, suits like this are a nightmare even if you do have grounds. Ultimately it may take less from your life just to move. I've done it.
But the initial letter-writing process may be worthwhile. There's nothing like a letter from an attorney to make some folks sit up and take notice.
ed to add more lay opinion:
re nuisance suits, one has to be able to show damages, one of the best ways is that the property value goes down due to the nuisance, because damages are in dollars and enjoyment of property is hard to quantify.
Now in the real estate boom it was very hard to show damages because values were going up no matter what. However, in this market, if a property has a disclosable adjacent nuisance, that could be the difference between selling and not selling, getting market price or not. The neighbors with dogs could be in big financial trouble. The key is to get them to go to an attorney and get informed of this.
ed to add again
The fact that the "good guys" trespassed and that a public agency knows it, is VERY unfortunate. As soon as the injured party steps over any legal lines, it becomes a case of one wrongdoer against another ... very difficult.
Don'ts:
talk to neighbor after initial civil discussion, done with a witness or preferably videotaped.
yell or lose temper, or ever insult them.
Do: document, keep a paper trail of correspondence, send certified letters.
I've been in a neighbor lawsuit. We were the injured parties (2 sets of neighbors). The defendants had a "creative" attorney who countersued for 1) trespass 2) abuse of process 3) assault 4) interference with business relations 5) intentional infliction of emotional distress and 6) defamation. NONE of these causes were supported by the evidence, but that doesn't matter in the initial phase of a lawsuit. They did this to bring our homeowners' insurance in to defend us. All they needed was one tort that was covered by our insurance, which was probably the trespass and/or the defamation.
Once our insurers were brought in, their budget determined the outcome, and we were forced to settle, essentially, and the defendants got enough out of it to pay all their legal fees, although they had dreams of some big windfall ... crazy, huh?
However, not all attorneys are as vicious or unethical as the one they came up with.
In any case, it is vital that anyone dealing with neighbor issues keep hands squeaky clean, which most definitely means STAY OFF YOUR NEIGHBORS' PROPERTY. If animals are suffering, sorry, do not let your instincts of empathy get you in trouble. Call the Humane Society/Police and say you have reason to think the animals are being neglected from what you can tell from the street or your own property.
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - kani-lehua - 05-26-2008
this thread should be called, "control the effing dog owners."! good grief and no relief for the woman you speak of.
malia paha o lohe aku
perhaps they will hear
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Beachboy - 05-27-2008
bottom line pet owners should control their pets. But while pets are on pet owner's property there is nothing you can do to stop offensive barking. Bottom line for scared or annoyed neighbors. The only time you can "kill" a neighbor's pet legally is if said animal is on your property being aggressive towards you. Otherwise get ready to wear a orange jumpsuit for awhile and have a two legged dogs ready to toss your salad for the duration of your stay there!
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."
George Carlin
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - missydog1 - 05-27-2008
well, there is technically something you can do, because a) there's an ordinance prohibiting letting your dog bark steadily for more than so many minutes. But the ordinance is relatively new and people here grew up with a lot of tolerance for the barking. This includes I'm sure a number of the people charged with enforcement.
Also, every property owner has a right to peaceful enjoyment of his or her property, BUT unless a crime has been committed, this right is enforced through the CIVIL justice system and not through public agencies or official prosecution.
Which makes it difficult and expensive to assert your rights, but if it matters enough, it can be done. There can be lots of unpleasant side effects from alienating neighbors though.
The dog issue is one reason I have TRIED my best not to buy land where the adjacent parcels were fairly close and not yet built. You have no idea what is coming in. Also I would not buy land here without spending time around it at all hours of day and night to listen to the neighborhood. You simply can't treat this land like pristine paradise where you'll find your piece of heaven. Like anywhere else, the neighbors can make or break your experience.
(clearly you can do everything to scope it out and STILL have good neighbors move away and be replaced by bad neighbors, which is tragic when it happens)
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - Beachboy - 05-27-2008
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
well, there is technically something you can do, because a) there's an ordinance prohibiting letting your dog bark steadily for more than so many minutes. But the ordinance is relatively new and people here grew up with a lot of tolerance for the barking. This includes I'm sure a number of the people charged with enforcement.
hey KathyH I wonder about the ordinance you are talking about? A lot of people call and complain about hovering helicopters over their lots too. I wonder who is louder a barking dog, or a helicopter with it's "Whack", "whack" rotating blades hovering your property? I'm probably gonna guess that the Puna police don't come quickly for either complaints. What do you think?
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity."
George Carlin
RE: Control your EFFING DOGS! - missydog1 - 05-27-2008
For those of you interested in the laws here, Animals are covered by Hawai'i County Code Chapter 4, which has an unofficial version online:
http://www.co.hawaii.hi.us/countycode/chapter04.pdf
Section 24 is on noisy dogs. There are sections on strays, defecation, dangerous dogs, most every problem we've discussed.
I've never called the police in Puna; I have in Hilo, although not on a dog call. It's not really worse than California, or better. A barking dog is not considered life-threatening and gets prioritized below calls that involve danger and injury. They do come eventually, If the dog isn't barking by then, you're SOL.
It would be nice if officers were trained to understand that chronic exposure to repetitive noise can be life-changing for people. Maybe they wouldn't be so dismissive when they come. The thing with police though, is you don't have to get their approval, you just need to know the law and calmly ask them to enforce it, and if there is a violation, they'll do what they're supposed to do.
I don't know about helicopters, Beachboy. except that they annoy me too. They don't go on as long as a dog can though. [8D]