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+--- Thread: When, not If lava crosses 130... (/showthread.php?tid=13003)
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - Obie - 03-07-2014
Anyone who thinks it would be easy to divert the flow,should look at the pictures and videos from the 1960 Kapoho eruption.
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/history/1960Jan13/1960supset29_large.jpg
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/history/1960Jan13/1960supset30_large.jpg
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/history/1960Jan13/
The Long Barrier
Another barrier, this one about 1.6 km long, was constructed along a broad forested ridge from the east end of Pu`u Kukae almost to the ocean. Work began on this structure on the morning of January 21, and by late afternoon more than two dozen large caterpillar tractors were in operation. It was hoped that the barrier would prevent lava from engulfing Kapoho Beach Lots or the Coast Guard facilities at Cape Kumukahi.
The barrier held for awhile; flows piled against it but did not breach the dike. By midafternoon of January 28, however, the long barrier was broken though in four places, the largest only 250 m from the Coast Guard residences. By January 29, the barrier was no longer effective, having been overtopped or breached in many places (see map for Jan. 30). The flow teased the residence area in on-again, off-again fashion for several days, surrounding but not destroying the houses until February 2.
Meanwhile, the long barrier was also being outflanked. Lava had built into the sea beyond the end of the barrier, turned southward, and was advancing toward the Coast Guard lighthouse on January 27. Luckily this lobe of the flow stopped soon thereafter. Once the barrier was breached, lava once more threatened the lighthouse, but, as nearly every resident of Hawai`i Island knows, it stopped, almost miraculously, just short of overrunning the facility.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - bluesboy - 03-07-2014
The collapse of Puu Oo crater in March 2011 was co-incident with the Kamoamoa fissure eruption.
Pahoated - your (mis)understanding of the volcano never ceases to amaze me.
Obie - those are great links you brought up.
Whomever was suggesting trucks and bulldozers, etc - do you realize the current flow is nowhere near any roads/infrastructure? The Kapoho flow in 1960 actually was, hence the ability to use those tools.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - Wao nahele kane - 03-07-2014
quote:
Originally posted by bluesboy
It's the same everywhere - people want to change the course of Mother Nature. And the answer is always the same - you can't.
Go with the flow.
Because humans are a product of nature what they alter becomes natures course in a strict sense. But because nature is an associative construct of the human mind, humans can be set apart from nature in an evaluative sense.
In the sense of that associative separation, humans indeed can and do alter the course of nature -
*Nurek Dam
*Syncrude Tailings Dam
*Panama Canal
*GMO
*CFC emissions
*Evolution within given geographical locations
This list can be inclusive of many countless human activities which indeed change the course of nature when considered associatively.
The aspect of Nature that humans cannot change are it's rules and rudimentary composition.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - Seeb - 03-07-2014
The diversion in the study was by breaching cinder cones on the opposite side from were you were trying to protect. Not trying to build a wall, though Iceland used water to harden lava basically making itself into a wall to protect a harbor.
Win or lose- You got to try.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - Super8 - 03-07-2014
quote:
Originally posted by bluesboy
It's the same everywhere - people want to change the course of Mother Nature. And the answer is always the same - you can't.
Go with the flow.
@bluesboy So, you believe it's better to not try and let thousands of people go homeless, just because diverting the lava had been tried before and failed? Or is it from some misplaced ideal of environmentalism? If the former, Apathy. If the latter, then you should probably tear down your house, compost the organic parts and carry the other parts (by hand and on foot) to the transfer station. Allow "Mother Nature" to reclaim the lot you live on.
Unreal how if a problem doesn't directly affect people, they are willing to take this high-minded, indifferent attitude. Hard to believe you wouldn't even want to try.
@Obie,
I am aware of previous attempts to divert the lava. They were also working under different topological conditions. Pu'u O'o is perfectly located to use gravity to maximum benefit. And with a ~6 mile straight shot into the Ocean, there is nothing standing in the way to destroy.
I half expected your kinds of responses. Thanks for telling me and everyone else, with complete certainty as experts on the subject, why it CAN'T be done.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - Wao nahele kane - 03-07-2014
Seeb,
I agree but the responsible take charge character of todays culture within its elected representatives passed away along with John Wayne. Too many people have become afflicted with obsessive PC a form of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. It's destroying our culture as a whole.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - PaulW - 03-07-2014
The January video said that if the flow continued at its current rate (100ft/day) then it would not reach populated areas for another year.
Today's report says: "the flow front has not advanced more than 500 m (1,600 ft) since the first time it stalled in early November, 2013".
So, as stated, it is something to keep in mind, not something to (overly) worry about.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - lavalava - 03-07-2014
quote:
Originally posted by unknownjulie
If people protest a telescope being built on a volcano, what kind of protest will happen if someone proposes blowing a hole in the side of a volcano? I can only imagine!
People around here like to protest lots of things, sometimes it seems like they are protesting just for the sake of protesting with no particular issue or outcome in mind. A near constant source of amusement for me - YMMV.
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - kalakoa - 03-07-2014
Given the pace of County and State work projects, does anyone really want them to be responsible for something like this?
RE: When, not If lava crosses 130... - VancouverIslander - 03-07-2014
quote:Army Corps of Engineers. Hook them up with USGS for scientific/technical assistance.
Originally posted by kalakoa
Given the pace of County and State work projects, does anyone really want them to be responsible for something like this?