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+--- Thread: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access (/showthread.php?tid=16163)
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-21-2015
They say that the TMT will be able to see back to the beginning of the Universe.
Maybe that's what the opponents are afraid of...
That it will see back to a time when no humans were in Hawaii.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - leilanidude - 07-21-2015
quote:
Originally posted by kimo wires
They say that the TMT will be able to see back to the beginning of the Universe.
Maybe that's what the opponents are afraid of...
That it will see back to a time when no humans were in Hawaii.
Then it won't be looking very far back...
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-21-2015
Got the point I see.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - TomK - 07-21-2015
Posted this on another MK thread and immediately realized it wasn't the right thread, much better here.
......
And just after posting that we're dealing with a medical emergency and evacuation of the victim from the summit. This happens more often than people might think, which is why observatory staff are so concerned about some random elements from the protesters blocking the road. If this is altitude sickness the victim needs to be taken down to lower elevations immediately and not be delayed.
Stressed out observatory staff right now.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Obie - 07-21-2015
A really good letter to the Editor today :
"No aloha for astronomers?
I have lived in Hawaii for 30 years. I fully appreciate the Hawaiian culture and have many Hawaiian friends. I am writing this letter for them because I love them, and they asked me to share this truth with you.
I worked with almost every telescope on Mauna Kea for about 12 years and spent five years working full time at the summit of Mauna Kea at Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope, living at Hale Pohaku every week. I also spent countless nights at the summit doing engineering or operating one of the telescopes.
While living on Mauna Kea, I explored every nook and cranny of that beautiful place in my off time. I know adze quarries and burial sites and caves all over the place. I know of an ancient Hawaiian astronomy site there, with a huge, comfortable resting area made of round rocks brought up or gathered by them. There are large stones and piles of stones all around, that were placed to mark compass points and where important stars would rise and set. I was told the ancient Hawaiians used this site on Mauna Kea to refine their navigational charts and calendars.
Here’s the basic problem with all the Thirty Meter Telescope protests.
Not ONCE, in all my years working and living up there, did I see any Hawaiians worshiping or performing ceremonies.
However, I’m not completely ignorant. I know some ceremonies were performed there, usually for an equinox or solstice every couple of years. Those were done at Pu‘u Poliahu and near the summit peak also. Both places are very special in my life. If the TMT was planned for either of those areas, I might be one of the protesters. Both have roads leading to them, but have no telescopes or anything.
Good thing the astronomers put in nice roads so we can make it up there. Also, very nice of the astronomers to keep the place clean, place full-time rangers up there to enforce keeping cultural sites pristine, and even put in a staffed visitors center to educate the tourists and the locals.
Why can’t everyone appreciate what good things the astronomers are doing in good faith? These telescope buildings are not sacrilegious, they uphold the greatest of Hawaiian beliefs, a belief in exploration and knowledge of the universe. We actually continue today what was started in ancient times — watching the heavens from Mauna Kea.
Way back then, they laid down on perfect-sized rocks carefully layered onto sand in a surprisingly comfortable place. They placed piles of rocks around to mark the stars positions. They sought to understand our place in space and time. Today, they do the same kind of thing with cameras and computers. More and more as things become more automated, the astronomer just stays home and logs onto the Internet.
By the way, you can thank the astronomers for the camera in your cellphone and the Internet, too. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of things we have and know today for which we should thank the astronomers. Why can’t everyone show them the aloha they deserve?
Then, I see a picture of a protester with a T-shirt that says “A‘ole TMT” and a sign that says “For the Keiki.” What? What exactly will our keiki get if the TMT is NOT built? I can only see that they will lose a great opportunity for the advancement of human knowledge and a huge economic benefit to this great island, just for starters.
Then, there’s the additional benefit of the prestige and increased respect of all people on the whole planet for Mauna Kea and for Hawaii and for the Hawaiians who started it all. There are all kinds of other side benefits, too, such as the ‘Imiloa Center, the STEM program and the University of Hawaii at Hilo astronomy program.
Most importantly, there is the very real possibility one of those keiki could end up as an astronomer and make the most profound discovery ever made for humankind with the TMT. I want my keiki to have that chance. Don’t you?
Steve Massey
Paauilo"
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-22-2015
^ Bravo, well put Steve.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - TomK - 07-22-2015
Although I can't condone reposting an entire letter in the HTH here (smacks of copyright infringements), I know who Steve is and can back up his argument. I've already posted here that in my years of working on Mauna Kea, the only ceremonies I ever witnessed at the summit region were for solstices and perhaps the odd equinox, but they were always on the summit ridge or the actual summit itself. I have never seen any ceremony whatsoever at the TMT site. Well, until very recently of course.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Guest - 07-22-2015
Who would have authorized the taking or diversion of water from historic springs atop maunakea?
Where is that water going( holding tanks) and what is it being used for(flushing toilets for the military or tourists)?
How valuable is the land atop maunakea today, Really? Trillions, priceless, or is it just Rocks, $1?
Is, or was there life, living plants or creatures on the proposed TMT site? If so should they be exterminated, or moved, in order to continue the search for the same types of life elsewhere in our galaxy?
Jmo here, The current working observatories atop maunakea have caused much of this tension and protesting we see today? The TMT project has the bad luck or misfortune of following many prior telescope projects still being scrutinized? Future discoveries and possible Nobel prizes that come with them may replace most of the Hawaiian spirit, history, aloha, and culture atop maunakea? Maunakea access once had many restrictions before the state, university, Oha, TMT, and other observatories bought, promised, sold, or managed the mountain and its future generations resources?
P.S. jmo, Astronomers(not the most keen observers) atop maunakea don't notice Hawaiian gatherings, environmental hazards, endangered bugs, plants, or other living organisms atop maunakea? The large amounts of money coming through doors riddled with bullet holes tend to change the rules, viewing time, and rocks in their world?
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - TomK - 07-22-2015
"Who would have authorized the taking or diversion of water from historic springs atop maunakea?"
There aren't any springs on top of Mauna Kea, historic or not. What nonsense are you on about now?
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Obie - 07-23-2015
"Although I can't condone reposting an entire letter in the HTH here (smacks of copyright infringements)"
He posted his letter on Facebook over a week ago and it has been shared 14 times on Facebook so I assumed he would be OK with me posting it here.