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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 12-12-2016
Yes the board is attempting to pass of the chip seal project as dust abatement however there are other procedures for a much lesser cost that obviously will have just as long of a lifespan as the chipseal that is less rhan 4 months old unraveling and having potholes
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 12-12-2016
Also all though paradise park roads are private roads it is not able to legally have unlicensed person doing the work it is still considered commercial and unlicensed work is $1000 and under but the board has authorized 50k per mile instead of paving dust abatement my butt!
This pricetag also does not cover the grading or the chips Hppoa pays for that.. the 50k only pays for an unlicensed person to use their machine labor and oil...done correctly chip seal will last aporox 5 years the latest road done is not even 6 months old and failing ..its no surprise all the moneys are goi g to lawsuits ..I am seriously entertaining one of my own also
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-12-2016
quote:Johnd, agree that the AG should be involved. Some have tried w/no results so far...the AG ofc has a small staff. A recommendation was to find like minded members and file a lawsuit. As Katarina pointed out, $20,000 retainer fee may be the sum involved to start the ball rolling.
Originally posted by Johnd
Katrina, I believe I mentioned to get advice from a.... Honolulu attorney in my previous post. But, I believe that the attorney general's office would need to be involved on this.
jdo
Or hold a special membership mtg requested by at least 100 members in good standing. An agenda along w/the 100 signatures are submitted to the board. "It must be held w/in 45 days of being legally called and notices must be mailed to members 30 days in advance of the meeting date." Article VII- Membership Meetings Sec 2. Notices would be mailed out to the entire membership stating the reason/s for calling the mtg. It's one way to get a lot of members together to address our concerns, make motions and vote. If 200 members in a district are present and willing to sign a recall petition at the mtg, a rep recall can be prompted. These are options available to the membership.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Aki - 12-12-2016
HPP is a great place...yes there are some governance issues but those don't distract from the life in paradise...
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-13-2016
Mermaid
Thank you for taking the time to add more specific information. I also like to thank Rob for giving us the space to exchange views here.
It seems the arbitration was a colossal waste of time and the wrong way to go. The demands presented should have been able to be dealt without going that far. Goes to show this Board or any other like this must be done away with equal representation and be held personally responsible..and there are ways to do that.
Under other circumstances, I would have been very surprised that a Board would have gone so far as to use road fees to retain attorneys to oppose the demands made in the mediation. Talking about opening a can of worms! Who are these people?
Requesting a special meeting is a first step. But there are other actions that will inevitably will have to be taken, and costs will have to be absorbed in order to prevail.
Obviously, discussing that issue here is not very wise any longer.
I don't think the present Board members have a clue their boat is sinking, and we are all watching. Some will personally regret not paying attention to what is being conveyed to them.
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - Katarina - 12-13-2016
Thanks for clarifying John. I must have missed that bit about hiring an attorney from Oahu. There was a special meeting a couple years ago right when the employees were illegally fired. It didn't matter. The board just plowed on breaking by-laws. I'm telling you... the only way to get any change is to cut out the cancer and make sure rational, intelligent people are elected to the board.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Seeb - 12-13-2016
What rational person would volunteer for that much abuse unless they have an agenda of their own
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-14-2016
HOA Boards are usually nests that spread discord and generally tend to lower the quality of life for community. Where there is no honesty, peace, focus or dedicated devotion to the task at hand, there is no good quality of life for anyone.
I cannot remember one year that we have not had issues with the roads. I think we have become the most pain in the ass subdivision in East Hawaii and that has kept us from bringing in needed infrastructure. Hawaiian beaches have their own running water AND paved roads and viable public transport, Hove has paved their entire subdivision...
I remember the day one of our female office staffer's resigned and literally darted out of the Park, and by chance met with me, I will never forget what she said between tears of rage: "HPP should ask itself who have they pissed of so much at County Level that they cannot get anything done here".
And as far as Boards are concerned, in many instances, even good intentioned folks volunteering in these Boards get sucked in by the sanctimonious omnipresence of the professional types that for some reason know it better than anyone else and whose Midas touch is usually out of touch with the rest of us.
I think that most of us live here because Hawaii is not the mainland with all the bs that entails. Simply, we pay dues to the Association to have GOOD roads, that's it...This not a HOA but a ROAD association meaning our organization only pertains to the building and maintainance of our roads... Not about parks, maintaining structures for social events, and community patrols,no interference in our lots, no added burdens if we occupy our land or not, funding for "employee squables", or to pay attorneys fee to fight ourselves.
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-14-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Johnd
HOA Boards are usually nests that spread discord and generally tend to lower the quality of life for community. Where there is no honesty, peace, focus or dedicated devotion to the task at hand, there is no good quality of life for anyone.
I cannot remember one year that we have not had issues with the roads. I think we have become the most pain in the ass subdivision in East Hawaii and that has kept us from bringing in needed infrastructure. Hawaiian beaches have their own running water AND paved roads and viable public transport, Hove has paved their entire subdivision...we are paying 313 a year and still have to clear our own roads!
I remember the day one of our female office staffer's resigned and literally darted out of the Park, and by chance met with me, I will never forget what she said between tears of rage: "HPP should ask itself who have they pissed of so much at County Level that they cannot get anything done here".
And as far as Boards are concerned, in many instances, even good intentioned folks volunteering in these Boards get sucked in by the sanctimonious omnipresence of the professional types that for some reason know it better than anyone else and whose Midas touch is usually out of touch with the rest of us.
I think that most of us live here because Hawaii is not the mainland with all the bs that entails. Simply, we pay dues to the Association to have GOOD roads, that's it...This not a HOA but a ROAD association meaning our organization only pertains to the building and maintainance of our roads... Not about parks, maintaining structures for social events, and community patrols,no interference in our lots, no added burdens if we occupy our land or not, funding for "employee squables", or to pay attorneys fee to fight ourselves.
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-14-2016
Board responsibility per our bylaws:
Article IV - Objects and Purposes
(a) To ascertain the needs and desires of lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision and represent those needs and desires as appropriate.
(b) To manage, protect, maintain, and improve the improved and unimproved real properties and other assets of the Association, and to provide usual administrative and executive functions necessary to the operations and management of the Association.
© To maintain, manage, preserve, and protect the commonly owned roadway easements in Increments I and II, which shall be used in common with others for roadways and utility purposes.
(d) Supervise the immediate management and operation of the Association.
(e) To foster an atmosphere of cooperation and harmony that encourages the participation of lot owners in the management and operation of the Association.
(f) To administer the financial affairs of the Association in a responsible manner.
(g) To promote social and recreational activities within the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision.
Article VIII Board of Directors, Sec 8 Powers and Authority
"Except for the limitations set by the Articles of Incorporation and by these bylaws as to actions to be authorized or approved by the membership and subject to the duties of the directors as prescribed by the bylaws, all corporate powers and affairs of the Association shall be exercised or controlled by or with authority of the board.
(b) Conduct, manage, and control affairs and business of the Association, and make policies and procedures not inconsistent with law, the Articles of Incorporation, or the bylaws.
© Maintain, repair, replace, restore, improve, and protect the common property, including, but not limited to, subdivision roadways, real property, buildings, equipment and any additional improvements and alterations thereto. The board shall act as a committee of the whole with respect to maintainance of said subdivision roadways, be responsible for road maintenance activities, and ensure that road maintenance funds are used for road maintenance activities exclusively.
(k) Ensure that finances are protected and managed in the best interests of the Association. To accomplish this purpose, the board shall establish reasonable formulas, policies, and procedures by which administrative costs are to be divided between restricted funds and non-road restricted funds.........Nothing in this section shall be interpreted in such a way as to relieve the board of the responsibility to account for all road funds separately in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices nor to empower the board to expend road maintenance funds for any purpose other than road maintenance activities."
Laying chip seal is not road maintenance. The already laid chip seal roads will now come under road maintenance.
See Nov minutes, Dist 5 rep w/out board directive, wrote a policy to change the process of Dist Recall bylaw. Isn't that called circumventing the bylaws, and isn't this a conflict of interest when she's in the midst of a recall process? If anyone out there heard or was told the recall petition isn't active, is over, is a non issue, you've been misinformed. Ofc personnel have also told callers to contact the Dist 5 rep if they want more info. It's not hard to figure out who's behind it, the one w/the motive. This is skewing the process. Isn't this called sabotage of a membership process? Board reps are aware this is going on. No accountability? How does this get remedied? Members have the right to remove their director per state law.
At the last 2 membership mtgs employees have meddled in membership business while on duty. Crossing names off Finance Committee sign up sheet. Members were riled up over this at the June membership mtg. Then partnering w/reps to do character assassination of arbitration claimants, and a membership committee while giving a report to the membership. Witnesses observed a rep and employees heckling and booing one of the arbitration claimants while he spoke to the membership. The rep was sitting next to the employees instead of w/her board peers. So unprofessional and...troubling.
This makes evident how deep the association problems go...the neglect of our roads and easements display this visually. Those w/good intentions get bullied off the board. This is the MO since 2014. Hard to get good reps on the board when this is going on. We have a Conduct Policy that isn't being utilized.