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+--- Thread: GEOThermal Stuff (/showthread.php?tid=10808)
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - Bullwinkle - 10-08-2012
Some may argue that geothermal is the physical manifestation of Pele and must be respected as same....
Sell off Pele's creation for "royalties - pennies on the dollar to subsidise private corporations" - yup about - par for the course.
What we need is infrastructure to put folks to work - not a extension cord to the off island factories and air conditioners.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - kabloink - 10-08-2012
Wouldn't the energy projects create jobs through direct employment and indirectly through increased demand for food, lodging and entertainment by those employed?
It could actually create some stable employment that isn't dependent on the whims of travelers.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - Bullwinkle - 10-08-2012
Seems to me we need to favor production over consumption - we need physical plant space and employment keeping long term jobs supported by the increased inexpensive renewable energy here on the BI.
Not more wal mart type "employment" in exchange for "our" energy to be shipped off island while our energy rates and unemployment (yes they are related) are among the highest in the nation as is done currently - who is making that decision? Not the people most affected me thinks.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - Rob Tucker - 10-08-2012
I believe there is potential for Puna to be a manufacturing center for the state if low cost energy was available.
But to get there requires leadership and maybe no one has noticed but Billy Kenoi has done NOTHING to enhance job creation on our island. Billy has totally been focused on protecting union county workers... which may be the ultimate source of the stresses at the County Clerk and Election offices.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - Rene Siracusa - 10-08-2012
A recent article from HI Volcano Observatory addressed the issue of subsidence and whether it is a natural occurrence or if geothermal development contributes to it. All the examples cited were from geothermal wellfields, but the answer was "both". Interestingly, in discussing the matter, the scientist mentioned that the geology and geochemistry are different in the other locations than in Hawaii. So comparing our geothermal and vulcanism with Iceland or anywhere else is apples and oranges. We need to deal with the reality HERE. What works in California, where the state monitors intensively, and where the wellfields are far removed from homes, and where there is no actively erupting volcano and a whole different geology, is totally irrelevant to our situation here. Let's learn about here and deal with it appropriately.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - kalakoa - 10-08-2012
It's simply not fair to single out solar and wind as "massively subsidized".
Oil is subsidized by tax policies and a military occupation.
Geothermal is subsidized by artificial "power purchase" rate structures.
Ironically, many of the issues associated with geothermal development are similar (and in some cases identical) to the problems with fracking.
The case for industrialization is interesting, and timely, but our elected officials have apparently chosen to focus their ambition elsewhere.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - terracore - 10-08-2012
Funny thing is, people see the USA as an energy importing country. But we exported 66 million tons of coal in the first 6 months of 2012 alone.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - Bullwinkle - 10-08-2012
Agreed - export energy - export jobs
So what is in it for us to run a giant extension cord (with all the associated line losses)to our neighbors - yup those same folks who have been so concerned about Puna - not
I think the best play is local energy intensive high value industry - ie ceramic kilns and metal casting (think small light metal high tech) require a lot of cheap electricity and all the local artistic talent would do well here imho.
Or will we send the geothermal off island for our neighbors to do same - last I read they all had better employment numbers and infrastructure.... they need geothermal to run the coming trains is my hunch.....
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - pahoated - 10-08-2012
quote:Wrong. What you are referring to is ACC (Avoided Cost Contracting). ACC applies to all the alternative energies including solar and wind. ACC requires the utility to charge the same rate as if it was all still being produced by diesel electric generators, which is 42 cents per kilowatt-hr. The requested rate increase will take that to 45 cents per kw-hr. HELCO is saying their existing contracts had the required ACC but the state dropped the requirement last year. HELCO is renegotiating some contracts and the additional 8MW contract does not use ACC, resulting in about a $2 per month discount.
Originally posted by kalakoa
Geothermal is subsidized by artificial "power purchase" rate structures.
The way ACC works is that it is a kickback to the utility. HELCO negotiates for a solar farm with a private company, the private company bids industry rate, for solar about 35 cents per kw-hr, HELCO charges 42 cents/kw-hr, 7 cents/kw-hr profit. For geothermal, industry rates are about 20 cents/kw-hr, HELCO sells it for 42 cents/kw-hr, 22 cents/kw-hr profit.
ACC is not related to subsidies at all.
RE: GEOThermal Stuff - kalakoa - 10-09-2012
HELCO making up to 22c/KWh profit (depending on source) isn't a "subsidy"?
Perhaps some overpaid economist consultant has a better word for this...
As far as manufacturing goes, it seems like it would be more efficient (and definitely "more interesting") to use direct solar collectors for things like kilns.