+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga (/showthread.php?tid=16504)
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Punatic007 - 10-14-2015
quote:
Originally posted by leilanidude
quote:Without zoos, there would be almost zero empathy for any wild animals.
Originally posted by Punatic007
I'd like to see the world outgrow the inhumane institution of zoo's. Animals may not be as smart as humans, they may be run by instinct over logic but emotionally they feel...deeply. Anyone who has had a dog knows this. Pain, sadness, loneliness, despair, frustration, anxiety, anger and mostly hurt. Hurt that humans are so selfish and cruel as to imprison them for display and exploitation.
Disagree. Zoo's teaches humans it's ok to exploit and cause untold grief and suffering to animals for the purpose of entertainment.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - terracore - 10-14-2015
I've been to zoos all over North America and a few in Europe.
I have NEVER seen a zoo with a one-acre tiger enclosure like we have. Usually they are MUCH smaller. Put all your thoughts about keeping animals in captivity aside... these tiger cubs were captive born and are NEVER going into the wild. What is a better outcome, an acre to run around and frolic in.... or stuck inside a dog kennel 18 hours a day, performing tricks for a circus or a Vegas act and never seeing sunshine or breathing outside air?
Nothing about this is perfect, but the tigers could do a LOT worse than our zoo. There are more tigers in captivity than there are in the wild. Tigers might become extinct in the wild within our lifetimes (in a lot of regions, they already have). When we finally pull our heads out and find how wrong that was, these zoo creatures might be the only path towards reintroducing the species back into nature where they belong.
When I saw Namaste limping around his habitat I felt similar to how I feel to see my elderly dog get around. But I was impressed at how large the enclosure was. Before you start pointing fingers and making judgments, do a quick check on how your own animals are treated.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - MarkP - 10-14-2015
"Zoo's teaches humans it's ok to exploit and cause untold grief and suffering to animals for the purpose of entertainment".
Disagree. The majority of zoo goers have no idea how much suffering the animals do or don't experience. The average relatively normal person would not attend if they thought the animal was suffering. The animal might in fact be suffering but the zoo goer is being sold something else entirely, perhaps a fantasy, perhaps not. It serves no purpose to get so carried away.
ETA: Namaste lived 15 years. That's longer than the average wild tiger and pretty good for a white tiger, which wikipedia says don't live as long as regular tigers. A white tiger is a fluke and probably would not have survived in the wild anyway. OTOH he was probably specifically bred by people who wanted a white tiger, the responsible gene being recessive, so maybe that means somebody owed him a living. Wikipedia also said that young male tigers have an annual mortality rate of 30% to 35%. He didn't have to deal with that. All in all Namaste was probably pretty happy with his 3 hots and a cot at the zoo. Perhaps his diet could have been better in terms of making him live longer but look how people enjoy eating themselves to death.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - ericlp - 10-14-2015
I've been to a lot of zoo's on the mainland, even the one on Oahu. I really like the Hilo Zoo for some reason. The animals don't appear to be depressed. I really could care less if they get or don't get another tiger. I think the space was adequate for a tiger.
Also, they fed the cat raw live chickens and other game. So I don't see how it's diet was compromised. Eating chicken bones I'd say it was getting enough calcium.
Anyway, it's my favorite zoo, for having really nice gardens and plant/bird life. I support whatever the happens at the zoo.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - dmbwest - 10-14-2015
It sounds like this Gibson woman has personal beef with the Tiger guy. And where was she before while Namaste was alive ?
I for one loved and always felt 'chicken skin' upon seeing Namaste just a few feet way from us. We are not the king of the jungle kine.
The best times were when he was standing in the corner, listening for the truck with his food coming ... Those eyes ...
Can't wait to see two little ones bopping around and hunting the roosters. Huge enclosure, free food, play time with a sibling ? Whats better than that ?
If they don't get tigers, I'll go live in there.
"Stressed ??? " "Exploitation ? " " Danger to community ? " That's b.s.
aloha,
pog
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Punatic007 - 10-14-2015
quote:
Originally posted by terracore
I've been to zoos all over North America and a few in Europe.
I have NEVER seen a zoo with a one-acre tiger enclosure like we have. Usually they are MUCH smaller. Put all your thoughts about keeping animals in captivity aside... these tiger cubs were captive born and are NEVER going into the wild. What is a better outcome, an acre to run around and frolic in.... or stuck inside a dog kennel 18 hours a day, performing tricks for a circus or a Vegas act and never seeing sunshine or breathing outside air?
Nothing about this is perfect, but the tigers could do a LOT worse than our zoo. There are more tigers in captivity than there are in the wild. Tigers might become extinct in the wild within our lifetimes (in a lot of regions, they already have). When we finally pull our heads out and find how wrong that was, these zoo creatures might be the only path towards reintroducing the species back into nature where they belong.
When I saw Namaste limping around his habitat I felt similar to how I feel to see my elderly dog get around. But I was impressed at how large the enclosure was. Before you start pointing fingers and making judgments, do a quick check on how your own animals are treated.
You can attempt to deflect and rationalize all day every day but at the end of the day Zoo's are about animal exploitation, period. The amount of suffering they cause could never justify the entertainment value.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - dmbwest - 10-14-2015
Oop's I forgot "suffering" in my previous too. LOL.
OMG,,, 007 do you REALLY believe that ?
Argument can made for some,,, but not ALL Zoo's Same same for many other entertainment industries ... Prolly gotta go third world these days ....
How do you feel about dogs on leashes ?
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - dmbwest - 10-14-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdmqn9JIuzc
would they say same to us ????
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Mtviewdude - 10-14-2015
quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
I'd like to see the world outgrow the inhumane institution of zoo's. Animals may not be as smart as humans, they may be run by instinct over logic but emotionally they feel...deeply. Anyone who has had a dog knows this. Pain, sadness, loneliness, despair, frustration, anxiety, anger and mostly hurt. Hurt that humans are so selfish and cruel as to imprison them for display and exploitation.
Sounds like we should ban dog ownership while we are at it.
Dog's are bred to be exploited for human's selfishness there is a lot of animal cruelty towards dogs. Cat's too. There is no really good reason for a person to own a cat.
Lions and tiger's should be in the wild, with their shrinking habitat and where American dentists can hunt them for sport.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Mtviewdude - 10-14-2015
quote:
Originally posted by DTisme
There are 3 reasons I'm against the cubs: I lived in SF area when the two young men were attacked and one killed by the Siberian tiger Tatiana in 2007. The young men were drunk and had been teasing her, throwing things at her enclosure, etc. She finally had enough, leapt up over the wall, escaped, and hunted the two down. One was mauled and the other killed. When we moved here a couple of years later and I saw Namaste's enclosure, I could only compare it with that of Tatiana's, the walls of which were much higher. (The new enclosure there has been built even higher.) Those big cats can jump tremendous distances if they've a mind to.
The 2nd reason is that, when I saw Namaste being fed whole raw chicken in a dirty enclosure with rusty bars, it just didn't seem like appropriate vet-approved care. I was not surprised at all when Namaste fell ill.
And the 3rd is personal. There's an area in the tiger enclosure that is surprisingly close to the public. One time I was walking along the path with a friend and Namaste was just feet from us on the other side of the double fence, walking the same direction and at the same pace. As we walked, she faced me for a second and let out this little unnerving growl. Maybe she was just saying hi, but I never went near her enclosure again.
If a tiger at Panaewa were to escape, who there will handle the ensuing chaos? Are there staff members on site with tranquilizer guns? (Even in SF, no staff was around to deal with Tatiana -- most everyone had gone home for the day -- and she ended up shot by local police.) Are there full-time staff who will be devoted to the tigers? Do they have young tiger experience?
Unless you're a world-class, accredited zoo, you have no business taking on large dangerous animals like tigers. As much as I enjoyed seeing Namaste, I've been glad that she hasn't been replaced.
1) So two young idiots get drunk and do something stupid and suffer repercussions. What was the problem again?
2) I agree, tigers in the wild eat eat their prefer their meat medium rare off fine china with silver forks. How truely uncivilized.
3) So everyone else should suffer because a tiger growled at you and you got a little scared. Sounds good!
Ugggghhhhh.