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+--- Thread: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? (/showthread.php?tid=1997)
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - missydog1 - 07-14-2008
thanks for sharing that Kat!
I have zero vested interest in keeping petrochemical energy sources alive, but the geothermal makes me DEEPLY uneasy, with its location on the rift zone. I mean, we're talking only a few miles from where lava fountains started spurting out of the fields one winter day in 1960.
While I don't know all the specific details of this deal, everything I've learned about how business was done in Hawai'i tells me that money and politics and political capital informed the decision, not research.
People came here to look into the health situation and had the door slammed in their face (metaphorically speaking).
There are people in Lanipuna and Leilani who've been battling very odd health conditions (especially in children) ever since PGV started up. It was because of the proximity that I backed away from buying in Leilani, I so have the hinkies from that place.
This makes me want to watch Silkwood again. [:p]
I would like to see the fans of this venture move their families next door to it as an expression of confidence in how it's being overseen. (not a personal remark to any Punawebber, just a general feeling).
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - gtill - 07-14-2008
Silkwood involved nuke material and is not relevant here. Did any of these people request relocation through the fund, and could they today? All of Puna is getting dosed with vog, Volcano is really bad sometimes, and has been since 83, but no deaths directly because of it.
Anyone who lives in Puna is taking some health risk, actually all the way to Kona and on occasion Oahu.
If they are experiencing health problems, move. We just had to as my wife had breathing problems in Volcano.
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - DanielP - 07-14-2008
Kat and KathyH, see my post on the "Volcanoes" thread that I just brought forward.
In that thread is a link from Carey that will give you the "Hawaii County Baseline Energy Analysis" . Very in-depth study.
I must agree, that in the rift zone is not a good location. Others are available.
Dan
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - missydog1 - 07-14-2008
quote:Silkwood spoke to the disregard of big business for health concerns and the SOP of burying information that casts an unfavorable light on safety procedures. It is relevant enough, but I wasn't trying to present it as an exact analogy, because it isn't.
Silkwood involved nuke material and is not relevant here.
quote:I believe they have been mocked rather than listened to, and I don't know what they have requested or not. Some of the issues I read about are "conditons at birth" and as such, relocation is not going to undo it.
Did any of these people request relocation through the fund, and could they today?
quote:Vog is primarily a sulfur dioxide issue. PGV's emissions have been primarily low level Hydrogen Sulfide. Hydrogen sulfide is a neurotoxin -- deadly at certain levels, such as the accident at Bhopal. S02 affects the lungs. Neurotoxins at low but chronic levels have not been well studied and it's pretty much impossible to prove causation.
All of Puna is getting dosed with vog, Volcano is really bad sometimes, and has been since 83, but no deaths directly because of it.
quote:well, this is an additional risk, and a scarier one, because it's a different toxin.
Anyone who lives in Puna is taking some health risk, actually all the way to Kona and on occasion Oahu.
Re accidents: my concern is that if the volcano goes off on that part of the risk, the wells would blow, and the area would get blanketed by hydrogen sulfide. Again, see BHOPAL. The winds would carry it faster than any evacuation could proceed.
quote:A little harsh. Easier for some folks than others.
If they are experiencing health problems, move.
So what are you saying, really? It's OK for this commercial venture to make residential areas toxic or toxic to some residents?
I think that when they located this venture, which Inouye pushed for, the folks on Oahu didn't give two figs for the population of Puna. Maybe they still don't, but the population of Puna is no longer small and on the fringe.
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - gtill - 07-14-2008
Kathy, sorry if I sounded crass, but let me explain.
To begin, Silkwood was caused and covered up by a corporaton. The gas was Methyl Isocyanate, a true deadly gas. Our geothermal woes are nearly all State screw ups. The present operators have an honorable reputation and strive to keep improving, don't denigrate them.
Our family left Canada in 1956 for California because my mother had a severe case of arthritis, we didn't want to move but had to.
I retired in Feb and we were going to build in Volcano(which she dearly loved), but a few visits and we realised the vog was too much at times. We had to put off the move and get a place in Nanawale, which we really didn't want to do. However she passed away a few days after closing on our new lot. Life is short, and when you have a health problem because of the surroundings, you move!
Again, on the relocation funds, who handles them? It seems the county is ready to put those funds into slush funds to play political games with. Again, people blaming the company for what are government mistakes (and outright greed).
The company is only making money because of the deal the county gave them. If your wage went up by 50% would you give it back. The gas price tied to the electric charges was a stupid mistake. Incidentally I believe that was initiated by Carter.
Living on a Volcano has it's risks!
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - missydog1 - 07-14-2008
I hear you, gtill. My parents have been moving for health for the last 50 years. No joke.
I am not denigrating the current owners. I'm denigrating the process that led to the original project being sited where it is. No matter who has inherited it, or how hard they are trying to make it good, I will never trust that this venture is safe, because it taps into volcanic forces that are unpredictable and cannot be controlled if they go haywire.
Sorry, but I'd rather pay more on my HELCO bill than have this concern in my neighborhood. It was definitely a factor in my choice of property, to stay away from it. It's very very easy to go to the area and not be made aware of it, or you see lots of other people so you figure its no concern, and then you invest (say Lanipuna Gardens), and when you move for health you lose your investment ... etc..
I agree to disagree on this. You go ahead and support it. And I won't. There are many things in the world where I will change my mind if presented with more information, but this idea of drilling wells along an active rift zone is not one of them.
I think it should be OK for there to be one or more dissenting voices on this, hopefully to send up red flags to people who might become its neighbors without any idea it could impact them. Then they can look into it and decide if it matters to them.
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - gtill - 07-14-2008
Kathy, would you consider what is happening on Hamakua coast, new wood burning generation facilities. I bet we have have enough Albesias and Waiwi in Puna to keep a plant going for many years.
Geothermal or somthing else, we need do get the costs down.
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - Kapohocat - 07-14-2008
quote:
Originally posted by gtill...
Anyone who lives in Puna is taking some health risk, actually all the way to Kona and on occasion Oahu....
Getting on a los angeles freeway is a health risk! [:I]
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - missydog1 - 07-14-2008
If you mean that horrible Tradewinds project proposed for O'okala, I am totally against it. Industrial zoning, mill closed down, after which people settle around the old site, knowing sugar is not coming back -- only to have a wood veneer/power plant proposal rammed in their faces.
Another wonderful product of the handshake deal school of politicking in Hawai'i.
Just the prospect caused the property values there to go down. It's one of the loveliest areas on the coast and they want to ruin it.
Not to mention the genius behind proposing that trees GROWN IN HILO would be TRUCKED over Hamakua to a mill. Just what that road needs, logging trucks.
Is there a new proposal? I do realize that all those pole trees on Kamehameha Schools land will someday need to be logged.
RE: Would Puna Geothermal Expand? - gtill - 07-14-2008
Kathy, I asked if it were to be in Puna, mabe across from Leilani or wherever, and you changed the subject to O'okala.
O'okala is an industrial zoned area, and was a living for many generations of local people. The island needs commerce, which means jobs. We can't let rhe upper crust of beautiful people turn everything into a realtors dream, full of rich outsiders. This is what China did to Tibet (ethnic cleansing).
Plus on the Hamakua coast, there is a known crack going from Hilo to Honokaa at 3-5000 ft level. The planted Eucalyptus trees might provide the straw that broke the camels back. It could end up looking like Waimanalo.