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+--- Thread: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai (/showthread.php?tid=19980)
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-23-2018
quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
In an aside relevant today, the Hawaiians lived in Puna all this time and didn't lose a lot of Hale through stupid construction practices.
At Honolulu Landing, south of Hawaiian Beaches in Puna, an entire Hawaiian village (with hale) disappeared due to subsidence. The coastline dropped over 10 feet into the ocean:
Honolulu Landing used to be a Hawaiian village ... The village was an important canoe landing and trading village.
Honolulu Landing was abandoned as a village in 1924 due to earthquakes that caused the shoreline to sink below sea level taking with it a black sand beach.
http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hi?Drives.wawa
But... weren’t we talking about whales? And “Whale Protectors.” And why it’s not beneficial to fill whales with rocks while they may still be alive, and say, oh, well, I’m a self taught improvisational native practitioner so the whale hopefully didn’t mind. Much.
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - Punatic007 - 07-23-2018
Doesn't sound like a very humane way of killing a whale, instead the opposite, quite cruel. Just because it's tradition doesn't mean it's smart, correct or humane.
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - kalianna - 07-23-2018
From West Hawaii today:
"Stewart and Pisciotta said they were never told to leave and stayed with the whale through the night and even after it died at about 1 a.m. When the sun came up, they transported the carcass by canoe a couple of miles offshore and conducted a Hawaiian burial ritual meant to help the animal 'transition into the realm of the deities.'"
They didn't take the animal to sea until several hours after it had died. I would think that given their experience, they would know whether the whale was dead before they went to so much trouble. And what would their motive be for burying a whale while it was still alive?
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2018/07/22/hawaii-news/charges-dropped-against-2-women-who-buried-dead-whale/
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - MarkP - 07-23-2018
This seems relevant:
"Eventually three-quarters of the versatile finches disappeared, most dramatically because Polynesian kings feathered their robes of office so lavishly. That old terminator habitat destruction, set in motion by the farming methods of Polynesian and Europeans alike, also added to the death toll. So did the introduction of non-native species that competed for resources with, and sometimes preyed on, indigenous birds. The record of many of these birds remains only in a collection of thousands of bones painstakingly reconstructed by Olson and James, then given the appearance of life in artist Hume’s portraits."
Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/hawaiis-vanished-birds-101149873/#W4pcI46G5UAfbXfJ.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
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Not sure who these folks are but I bet they know a thing or two. They think the making of feather cloaks caused extinction of birds.
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - MarkP - 07-23-2018
Wikipedia lists 19 bird species driven to extinction prior to western contact and 27 species post contact. The native Hawaiians accomplished 2/3s of what Europeans did in terms of driving birds to extinction with a stone age culture, a fraction of the population of today, and no industry. It would be an exaggeration to say they were trying to kill them off but it clearly is not an exaggeration to say that they did not exercise the high ideals of stewardship for all living things that is so often ascribed to ancient cultures. They protected what they needed (except for those red finches) and probably ate many flightless birds into extinction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals_of_the_Hawaiian_Islandsedia
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - kalianna - 07-23-2018
What does this have to do with the whales?
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - MarkP - 07-23-2018
That the stewardship of ancient cultures for all living things is poorly understood and usually exaggerated, hence the ancient Hawaiian burial practices for sea mammals could be a modern interpretation to suit modern day needs, needs which may have nothing to do with honoring sea mammals.
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - kalakoa - 07-23-2018
ancient Hawaiian burial practices for sea mammals could be a modern interpretation to suit modern day needs
The courts are certainly willing to "re-interpret" the laws to suit modern-day needs...
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - PaulW - 07-23-2018
This idea that primitive people were better at environmentalism is bogus. They just didn't have the means to cause as much destruction as we do.
I'm sure the arrival of pigs in Hawaii was a disaster for the native flora and fauna.
RE: Kealoha Pisciotta - Mauka & Makai - kalianna - 07-23-2018
What modern day need is being met by burying a whale at sea? Did they do this for some selfish reason? If the whale was indeed dead, what better way to honor it and dispose of it than to return it to its home? The only reason there is an issue is because NOAA didn't confirm it had died. They can hold their breath for an hour but it was on the beach all night. Should it rot on the beach until the county decides what to do with it?