+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Leilani suing County (/showthread.php?tid=20331)
RE: Leilani suing County - 1voyager1 - 10-28-2018
Keep in mind that I am not in favor of living behind a fortification.
I am not in favor of all actions being planned by the HOA.
But, I have no strong objections to anything planned that doesn't require a vote by the owners.
Leilani Ave. no longer serves as a connection between state/county arterials.
It now only provides access into a private residential community.
It is now in effect nothing more than a 2 to 2-1/2 mile stub that is now nothing more than part of a residential cul-de-sac.
Unless, the county has plans to rebuild Pohoiki Rd. and reconnect Leilani Ave. to it, the county has absolutely no use for Leilani Ave., unless it fits into some hidden agenda the county has in mind.
Does anyone think for even a second that the county will maintain the road if it only serves accessing LE?
Not unless the LCA sues them because they won't do it.
So far, the county's legal eagles are saying that it can't be done.
Whether that is an actual legal opinion, or just mouthing our Generalissimo's directive, I wouldn't venture a guess yet.
The county is going to have to begin saying what it intends, or at least would like to do, not just stonewall and ignore all those affected.
The Generalissimo is going to have to learn what a democracy is and how they operate.
As far as fissure 8 goes, it belongs to the people that own the properties that it sits on.
LCA bylaws and CCRs do not allow the operation of a tourist attraction inside the confines of the HOA.
It is part of a residential community.
The community may decide to do something with it in the future with the blessings of the owners.
That is a community decision, not someone trying to gain access for a thundering heard of tour buses.
Already, tour operators are parking their buses in Section 1, then walking their groups 2+ miles down our private roads to see the lava.
They are complaining about vehicles parking on their streets in Section 1 to walk into Section 2.
But, that is a problem they will have to find a way to deal with.
We cannot do it for them.
They are not part of the HOA.
Plus, I believe they have a similar situation as some of the other subdivisions have.
A bank, or at least someone else, owns their streets.
Our private roads that allow access to LE are going to be gated very soon, restricting all vehicle access to be only by way of Leilani Ave.
RE: Leilani suing County - snorkle - 10-28-2018
Look back to Kalapana.There are roads, homes and farms where there was once barren lava. Most of the leilani residents I know are against a gate. Be careful what you wish for; isolating yourselves from the county may not be in the best interests of Leilani in the long run.
Security? Neighborhood watch with a police liaison would be more reasonable than a lawsuit based on emotion; and a useless gate.
RE: Leilani suing County - glinda - 10-28-2018
in the long run...
Unfortunately some folks have a hard time with that concept.
RE: Leilani suing County - MarkD - 10-28-2018
Solution? -- Build a 2 - 3 mile chain link fence with barbed wire on top around the entire circumference of the flow field where it protrudes into Leilani. End it near the Y.
It'll be ugly as heck, but consider the following:
The flood of lookie-loos who will besiege Leilani if/when the gate opens don't just want to see the lava from the pavement. They want to walk out on it, to try to access Fissure 8. A fence will deter a lot of them.
Especially went the word gets out that they can access the flow field from the Y, which, apparently, is where to county spoke of setting up some kind of viewing area.
Is the county at present blocking people from hiking out on the Y side? Are officials thinking of putting up a fence there to deter this? If they do, logically they would also put a fence in at Leilani. The county's plans for the Y area are relevant to the Leilani situation.
There aren't many options for Leilani. Fissure 8's dynamic features can be expected to draw big crowds.
RE: Leilani suing County - 1voyager1 - 10-29-2018
My hearing is fading, almost noticeably on a daily basis.
I may have gotten the part about the gates being put in wrong.
I'm told that what was said is that barricades with reflectors are being put up soon on our roads to stop vehicles from running into lava where it impinges onto our streets, a liability issue being taken care of.
RE: Leilani suing County - Justin - 10-29-2018
I agree with 1v1. The biggest issue is that the County wants to pull out, but won't let LE do anything to rectify the situation if/when that happens. If the County doesn't want to pay for security, fine. But then let LE deal with the situation as the neighborhood sees fit. But the County's "plan" was to simply have the checkpoint disappear and have the residents of Leilani deal with the flood of tourists, looky-loos, no-gooders, and squatters. For people who were forcibly kept out of their homes for 4 months, and are just now in the process of getting their lives back to "normal," this is adding insult to injury. Moreover, since everything not on Leilani Ave is private, including all of the lava flow areas, residents would have to detail with the potential for lawsuits who injure themselves trespassing over their properties to get to the lava. That's a big gut punch.
On top of all this, at the moment the County is refusing to allow any building permits for LE, so people are justifiably aghast at the County, and just want to be left alone. But the County, for whatever reason, doesn't want to cede ownership of Leilani Ave to the HOA. (This is truly ironic given that HPP and other places want the County to take ownership of certain roads). To me, that is really odd. I don't see what the County gets out of holding onto a road to nowhere, other than cost and potential litigation. The easiest solution for all involved is for the County to turn over ownership and tell LE to handle things however their residents want to do it.
RE: Leilani suing County - benny - 10-29-2018
You would think the county could give out some of those $5000 tickets to the tour bus people parking their buses on private roads or at least on Leilani Avenue. - or someone must own a big enough tow truck to pull them out of there at the request of the Community Association. And I thought the whole flow field was restricted, so anyone on their is either committing private trespass or violating a public safety order. More $5000 fines. It was good enough to do it to residents.
If the county wants private property, buy it. Pave paradise, put up a parking lot. Bus operators should have to pay a fee ($50 or $100 a bus, perhaps?) to use the facility and support development of trails. For now I would certainly limit the number of buses per day. Post the rest of the area no parking - anywhere else in the world this would be a solvable problem. Well, except I am sure the county would want permits so they got a cut of the action.
Otherwise it's private property and LCA controls road usage, so have them tow trucks ready (or boots). For years there was all the signage down Kalapana way telling people to respect private property. That ought to hold in Leilani as well.
It will be a short term attraction - personally I would like to see residents make some money off of it and keep the tourist money flowing. I am sure that's not popular with some. We need to allow access to Leilani so people can resume their lives and normal usage of their property.
Benny
RE: Leilani suing County - kalakoa - 10-29-2018
Otherwise it's private property and LCA controls road usage, so have them tow trucks ready (or boots).
I'm willing to bet that "private road" doesn't automatically include the right to remove vehicles therefrom -- remember, it's also "open to the public", and any "no parking" or "towaway zone" would need to be explicitly defined in HCC along with all the other restrictions (time, loading zone, etc).
"Privately owned roads open to the public", the gift that just keeps on taking.
RE: Leilani suing County - 1voyager1 - 10-29-2018
Here is a copy of the handout from the last LCA special meeting where the lawsuit was discussed and approved by the attending property owners.
Towing of vehicles is not specifically address in the handout.
It was only mentioned in the discussion as a possibility.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cq1cvu79c77qj42/CCI10272018-converted.pdf?dl=0
The removal of vehicles is aimed at non resident vehicles parked along the private streets.
There will be signage designating the streets as private roads for the use of residents and their guests only with no parking allowed for lava viewing.
The county could conceivably make parking available within the right of way for Leilani Ave.
But, there is none available, yet.
The shoulders of Leilani Ave. and the HOA owned streets are grass over laying "pig mud" and will turn into a quagmire as soon as vehicles begin driving on them.
There is no way for the HOA to control what happens within the Leinani Ave. right of way, yet.
Keep in mind that this is only a plan being proposed and not yet being implemented.
And if I remember correctly, The public access question was brought up in response to the '14 lave flow escape route opening up in HPP, and the resistance from the HPP residents, a totally different set of circumstances, maybe, maybe not.
RE: Leilani suing County - kalakoa - 10-29-2018
signage designating the streets as private roads
Also designate "all private property", meaning everything that isn't the "private road".
Install ANPR scanner. Learn who visits. Filter out the residents (owners, guests), offer to share the rest of the list with County for a cut of the $5000 fine. Better yet, use some software to automatically file trespassing charges against everyone individually.