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+--- Thread: Mauna Loa (/showthread.php?tid=21479)
RE: Mauna Loa - TomK - 01-28-2020
I'd go further. Claiming professional credientials you don't have is fraudulent.
RE: Mauna Loa - Guest - 01-29-2020
One would be amazed at all the ideas passed around over dinner, at a picnic, in the library, talking in the hall, or maybe it was that time we ran into each other in KTA's parking lot? God, you'd be amazed at how often we run into each other in the KTA parking lot, especially since he moved to Hilo. Or was it at the beach? Regardless where, it's an observation one would make off handedly, 'hey did you notice that..'
I think it's an interesting idea.. that maybe the way the flank opens up repeatedly in an area has some rhyme, some pattern to it. So I shared it.. simple. I don't think it's important that I share who passed that idea on to me. But hey, let's be honest, your interest lies elsewhere. Otherwise your questions would be more to the veracity of the information.. pull out a map, check what is said. Have you done that?
Those casually shared ideas are often pretty interesting. And, over the years I have watched as many of them have percolated into research, and often publication. Whereas others just remain casual observations but are none-the-less interesting.. at least to me. Here's one I have always enjoyed batting around. Of course you can poke all sorts of holes in it, or conversely you can take the opportunity to continue your attack on me..
Have you ever noticed that Mauna Loa's East Rift Zone stops at or around that 9,000' area and wondered why? Why when all the other major radial rifts on the mountains tend to go way further, into the submarine extensions of the volcanoes? One researcher has proposed a very different model than any I have seen to date as to why that is...
He/she proposed that during the catastrophic collapse of Mauna Loa's southern flank that in some models preceded, and lead to, the onset of what became Kilauea, not only did the southern flank subside but that the lower extension of the east rift was also included in the land movement. And, that with the entire block sliding down, and to the south, what was then the east rift of Mauna Loa slid south enough to be positioned so as to be cockroached By Kilauea as she evolved, and as such everything east of Pauahi is built upon the older Mauna Loa structure.
Wild idea, eh? And one, I think, I first heard in a hot tub while discussing a manuscript we were working on together for a comparison analysis of shield volcanoes and the more popular stratovolcanoes around the world. Of course I throw that tidbit in so as to give you plenty to be obsessed with other than the actual idea itself, if that's what you really what to do. I mean, yeah, wild idea, but OMG in a hot tub? An unnamed source? Though I did hint at it being one of my co-authors, still... fire away.
But can you imagine.. that a part of the island collapsed and that the subsequent building of Kilauea included such a unique feature as being able to reoccupy an abandoned rift? Fun idea.. yeah? Though I haven't seen it in any peer reviewed publication there are other's that started out as "pure speculation," ideas batted around over beers in Reggie's office on a Friday after work, that have since made their way into the mainstream modeling now employed. But hey, one per post
RE: Mauna Loa - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 01-29-2020
I first heard in a hot tub
You should stream a podcast from your hot tub. Then we can be the first to hear all the ideas which might find "their way into the mainstream modeling" at some point in the future. Why should we wait until the information is studied, the information verified, confirmed by colleagues in the field, and finally published in a scientific journal, when it's available in 104 degree water right now?
RE: Mauna Loa - rainyjim - 01-29-2020
Everyone knows 103 degree water is the best temperature to mansplain whilst simultaneously humblebrag.
RE: Mauna Loa - TomK - 01-29-2020
"But hey, let's be honest, your interest lies elsewhere. Otherwise your questions would be more to the veracity of the information."
I am interested in the veracity of the information, and the first step in that process is to know where the information comes from. All I know so far is it comes from you. Essentially, your whole post is a logical fallacy; an argument from authority.
RE: Mauna Loa - Guest - 01-29-2020
"the first step in that process is to know where the information comes from"
Oh my, the world must frustrate the crap out of you. Sorry to disappoint, but hey, I had a conversation with someone 20 years ago and they shared an idea. And here we are all these years later and I shared it. It's just an idea.. and would be interesting to see if it pans out.. but certainly not one that's going to change anything. A teeny weeny little idea. But no.. you got up on that horse of yours and wham.. I am mud for not having a frickin' blah blah blah.
You are just so silly! But hey, carry on.. if nothing else you are entertaining.
RE: Mauna Loa - ironyak - 01-29-2020
TomK - I am interested in the veracity of the information, and the first step in that process is to know where the information comes from. All I know so far is it comes from you. Essentially, your whole post is a logical fallacy; an argument from authority.
Wait, you're the one saying that the source makes all the difference, which is the logical fallacy. The truth of the idea does not derive from its source, and as it is a prediction, there really is no way to tell how true it is until it does or does not happen.
Go and check if in fact the Mauna Loa vent locations in the northeast rift have been progressing with each subsequent eruption. Here's a good place to start - compare the flows shaded in pink to red (1843 - 1984).
https://pubs.usgs.gov/sim/2932/a/sim2932a_sheet1.pdf
The authors names are clearly listed there or give a shout-out to askHVO@usgs.gov if you want to make an appeal to authority for an "indisputable" answer.
RE: Mauna Loa - TomK - 01-29-2020
"Wait, you're the one saying that the source makes all the difference, which is the logical fallacy."
No, that's not what I said at all. I said that the first step is to determine where the information came from. Please don't put words into my mouth. I've asked a simple question of "hokuili"; where does the information come from? Secondly, I want to know if it comes from a reliable source, hence asking about the volcanologist. So far I have no answer. Why is that?
In addition, since we're talking about logical fallacies, yours is a classic straw man argument. You've attacked a position I don't hold.
RE: Mauna Loa - ironyak - 01-29-2020
TomK - I am interested in the veracity of the information, and the first step in that process is to know where the information comes from. (emphasis mine)
It makes no difference where the idea came from - that's the whole point of the argument from authority fallacy! Veracity is not dependent on the source. The prediction could be from a school kid, a scientist, or a damn fortune cookie - all that matters is the idea that the vent locations have been progressing with each subsequent eruption and if this continues the next eruption will be at or over the ridge so the flows could progress southward instead of northward. However, only time will tell.
This really has gotten silly - have you spent any time at all looking at the data for yourself? Or is this juvenile tit-for-tat interrogation really all that matters?
RE: Mauna Loa - TomK - 01-29-2020
Or is this juvenile tit-for-tat interrogation really all that matters?
Unbelievable. All I asked is who was the volcanologist who made these predictions and a pointer to their publications. Why is that juvenile? If I hear some results in something I'm interested in, the first thing I ask is where did that come from? I'd like to know if it's from a reputable source or, as you say, a fortune cookie. What is wrong with asking that question?