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+--- Thread: **This Post is about HPP and HPPOA Dysfunction** (renamed to spare the uninterested) (/showthread.php?tid=23454)
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 10-26-2024
(10-26-2024, 06:45 PM)MyManao Wrote:-----------------(10-26-2024, 06:34 PM)Patricia Wrote: So far..
Let's hope those that fill obscure forums with nonsense are held to account..
Most of them are not held to account. Because many of those "pages" and forums are policed by a co-administrator/moderator who encourages the conquer and divide ugliness.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - MyManao - 10-26-2024
(10-26-2024, 07:06 PM)Patricia Wrote: Most of them are not...
Are you really that dense?
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - ChunksterK - 10-26-2024
The only agenda that matters is the figurative one held by the board of directors, and historically they have not always been honest about what that may be.
I'm a 22 year HPP homeowner, and I attended those meetings (both BOD and Membership) for many years. Other than a venue for protest that nobody in power listens to, they are worthless. I've seen one clique after another take over the board, usually with an agenda to fire the manager. I've seen occasions where the apathy diminished short term, and several hundred owners attended general membership meetings. When that happened and the membership passed some sane and significant operational measures, the board voted every time at its next meeting to ignore them, saying it set a bad precedent. The boards did, however, push through bylaw revisions and other measures that they wanted at general membership meetings with as few as 20 member votes. So I am a cynic when it comes to HPP.
The best thing that could happen would be for the judge in one of the pending legal cases to put the HPPOA back under court supervision, something that happened in the 1990s. Independent competent management was hired, and property owners who were here at the time still refer to it as a sort of golden age. That is not, however, a long term solution. A multi-subdivision class action forcing the county to meet its responsibilities might be the key, but no less a figure than Harry Kim said in an open forum, "That would be just, but it would bankrupt the county." So do not expect help from politicians.
As others have said, self government does not work for HPP. It makes anarchy look preferable.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 10-26-2024
Aloha Chunkster,
In 22 years you would have seen a lot. And you would have arrived right after the recievership had ended (2001)., which is when Patadise Hui Hanalike changed their name to HPPOA, dissolved their Road Committee and took over sole administration of everything. I believe that was the last time, prior to this, where HPPOA was involved in a lawsuit that called into question their operating focus and governance. That lawsuit definitely did not settle matters- as we have witnessed over the years. But the judge DID define one, very clear fact and it is recorded, though HPPOA chooses to ignore it. HPP Owners CAN be members, but they are not required to be and DO NOT have to be if they do not wish to be. HPPOA cannot force owners to be members. The Hawaii Supreme Court knew this and so ordered, handing the decision back to the lower courts for them to come up with an "equitable" solution. Which is why Owners, not just the "select" members, were allowed to vote. Unfortunately, HPPOA has blurred the owner/member designation, forgotten the lawsuits and orders, and now wants to refashion itself as something it is not, because they want more control of the millions of dollars in road maintenance fees they collect every year. Just HPPOA wanting MORE control.
I know you know all of the above. Especially if you have been here 22 years. I suppose what really gets at me is that so many owners just shrug and do not seem to care that a VOLUNTARY community association is attempting to FORCE Owners to become members. Don't people care about free association? Don't people know/understand what free association is? This isn't something small, insignificant. This isn't a shrug moment. Since when is a VOLUNTARY club allowed to force you to be a member?
As for Waikahekahe and the study, Owners should be informed, educated. Because this is another decades long story that has been ignored, and if others do not push on the board, ask questions, discuss, HPPOA will do what it does best, let that issue (which they do not want to be bothered with and have others know too much about) sit on a back burner to be forgotten.
Aloh Hilo Julie,
You are absolutely correct. Definitely not enough participation. However, I would argue that some of this is the fault (intentionally) of HPPOA. And it started way back with Paradise Hui Hanalike.
PHH (now HPPOA) and their supporters were/are very happy collecting large sums of Road Maintenance Fee money. HPPOA also enjoys being the administrator who can decide how and where that money is spent.
When HPPOA was PHH, they had a relatively small number of members (in comparison to the total number of Owners). This small number of members (now supporters) was/is, as Chunkster pointed out, very cliquey and have never wanted to give up control. So what has occurred over the years is that PHH (now HPPOA) would organize and inform their small clique, while ignoring, dividing, or downright misinforming (or not informing at all) the rest. So if you are not part of the clique, you and what you believe are considered irrelevant. And since the clique has always been in charge (a minority of people with a lot of control) those who were not included in that group (even though they are the majority) have always deferred to the whims of the few.
Years of manipulation and conditioning.
(10-26-2024, 07:13 PM)MyManao Wrote:-----------(10-26-2024, 07:06 PM)Patricia Wrote: Most of them are not...
Are you really that dense?
It's called turning the tables.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - ChunksterK - 10-26-2024
(10-26-2024, 08:00 PM)Patricia Wrote: I suppose what really gets at me is that so many owners just shrug and do not seem to care that a VOLUNTARY community association is attempting to FORCE Owners to become members. Don't people care about free association? Don't people know/understand what free association is?
No, I don't care about that. My property closing documents and the courts quite clearly say I have to pay my road assessment, and that's what matters most to me in reference to the HPPOA. I do have a problem with them pretending to be a planned community when we obviously aren't one, and I'm not keen on the current clique's desire to use our money to correct the post box situation that is really the fault of the Watamull family and the USPS.
Having said all that, my road is in the best shape ever with some chronic problem spots finally fixed and more frequent maintenance. The office staff have started answering the phones after years of letting everything go to voice mail, and the current manager actually returns calls and speaks to homeowners. These are things that did not happen under the previous clique. But just wait. Before too long a new group will come along and do whatever it takes to get their own power trips going.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 10-26-2024
ChunksterK,
I am glad that you road is the best it has ever been, and I agree the staff and manager are receptive to Owners and on top of things. All positives.
I also agree with paying road maintenance fee money- which our deed, being in Increment II, also states.
But I do not want to be forced to be a member of the HPPOA club- an obligation which is not in my deed. And I object to HPPOA siphoning off hundreds of thousands of dollars so they can spend it on whatever, and do whatever, they want.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - ChunksterK - 10-26-2024
Forgive me for being blunt, Patricia, but you seem obsessed with the member concept. I think I recall that you managed to get yourself declared not to be a member. If that's true, why keep beating a dead horse when the vast majority don't care? And has it ever occurred to you that you don't have to immediately respond to every post on this thread? It might be nice for some other exchanges of ideas to transpire before you jump in.
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 10-26-2024
(10-26-2024, 09:37 PM)ChunksterK Wrote: Forgive me for being blunt, Patricia, but you seem obsessed with the member concept. I think I recall that you managed to get yourself declared not to be a member. If that's true, why keep beating a dead horse when the vast majority don't care? And has it ever occurred to you that you don't have to immediately respond to every post on this thread? It might be nice for some other exchanges of ideas to transpire before you jump in.--------------
Apologies
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, Bylaws, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 10-26-2024
Maybe we should talk about this at our Owners/Members meeting tomorrow. (Sunday, Oct 27, 2024 at 3:00 PM)
The Watumull's aren't having it.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:US:04d5d43a-2199-40bd-8588-b6cf377f6416
RE: Unfinished Business, Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Obie - 10-27-2024
You left out that they have agreed to arbitration or a settlement conference.