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RE: Permit /Building Questions - janeadams - 11-08-2007
We're no professionals in this, but... my $.02 worth.
First, when we went to the Hilo Building dept for permits for our house, greenhouse and garage, we experienced friendly, helpful folks. The process was a bit convoluted, but was reasonable timely (a month or so). This was in Fall, 2004. Our experience with the inspectors was also good -- courteous, helpful and reasonable timely.
Our pervious experience with building depts in Hawaii was in maui, but our general contractor dealt with that in most satisfying way. No hassles, no diatribes, no nothing.
All that said, it can't come even CLOSE to the experience we had in Sunnyvale, CA (South Bay Area). Sunnyvale got an award by the Clinton administration for "best city manangement", in part for the re-org of their building department. They brought all the regulatory parties together in one building. You walked in (no appointment necessary), sat down at the counter with your plans, and they brought everyone to you. I had to make one trip home to get a forgotten piece of paper, but all told, it was about 1/2 day's time to get our building permits for an enormous remodel of our home by a General Contractor. The only negative experience there was as we approached final, the inspector got a bit picky and such, but that was it.
No, California does not have a corner on the perfection market, but I have just heard that a local friend is now 7 months and counting to get a permit for one of the trojan package homes. That is way outside our experience just a short couple of years ago, so it makes me wonder.
A lot always has to do with inappropriate displays of attitude. The front area staff at any public service department often get little recognition for when they do things right, just diatribes when things don't go the way the "customers" want them to. Having spent enough time doing that in the early years of my career, I know that a little good will goes a long way. I think its especially true when moving into a new culture (Hawaii vs mainland, especially fast-paced CA).
Anyway, all else being equal, if there's poor service, and self-exam points the problem away from my own behavior, I ought to have a reasonable way to ask for some insight into what the hold-up is. In any bureaucracy there needs to be a way for folks to swim upstream when there's a problem encountered, but its not always obvious, and usually is not found when accompanied by poor manners on either side.
Jane
"come on people, now,
smile on your brother,
got to love one another right now...
(I probably got the words wrong, by jesse had the sentinment right!)
RE: Permit /Building Questions - Kapohocat - 11-08-2007
quote:
....All that said, it can't come even CLOSE to the experience we had in Sunnyvale, CA (South Bay Area). Sunnyvale got an award by the Clinton administration for "best city manangement", in part for the re-org of their building department. They brought all the regulatory parties together in one building. You walked in (no appointment necessary), sat down at the counter with your plans, and they brought everyone to you. I had to make one trip home to get a forgotten piece of paper, but all told, it was about 1/2 day's time to get our building permits for an enormous remodel of our home by a General Contractor. The only negative experience there was as we approached final, the inspector got a bit picky and such, but that was it...
Thanks for this. I left a msg for Nani and am going to mention Sunnyvale to her and also see if they have info on-line. She is always interested in what will make the process more efficient. (And I don't want to hear any snorting or laughing from the peanut gallery!...
) Like everything else the Bldg division runs under the county councils approvals.Catherine Dumond
Blue Water Project Management
808 217-7578
http://bluewaterpm.125mb.com/index.html
"We help make building your dream home a reality"
RE: Permit /Building Questions - jerry - 11-10-2007
The last set of electrical permits I filed for came back in 7 days. A month was the average for the past year.
So maybe with the boom history the permitting process will speed up. Or maybe it was just a fluke.
Jerry
Art and Orchids B&B
http://www.artandorchids.com
RE: Permit /Building Questions - Kapohocat - 11-10-2007
hmmmm.. I wonder if you got the new crew of clerks.... they do seem less helpful than the experienced but now retired Judy, or Kathy who doesnt seem to be at the front much anymore. I just ran into that issue when askign what I thought was a simple question.
As for Calif - maybe it is the county (Sonoma County) - we were gettign figures for permitting a remodel project - and addign space - permit with all told came close to $27K..... the land was dual zoning so maybe that had something to do with it.
You never know - we may be tryign to compare apples with oranges.
Edited by - kapohocat on 11/10/2007 18:36:57
RE: Permit /Building Questions - Carey - 11-10-2007
I am going to say that dealing with the Hawaii COunty Building Department IS different, both from my own midwest experience, and friends of ours that have moved from other islands.
This is a county that does not keep copies of building plans - so you will never know what actual work was permitted unless the plans have stayed with the structure. Many buiding dept. (even on other islands) do keep the plans on file.
The counter people have only can answer very basic questions & if you make an appointment to talk to the inspectors, you may not get much farther
(sample: currently have a dining area that is adjacent to kitchen. Before we go further into this idea, can you add an eating counter onto the shared walled, under a 6' window without installing outlets every 2'. To answer this question (this is a fairly common thing in design magazines & had a picture of a similar installation) you will need to bring in plans....but if we have plans drawn, we have gone into $$, just to find out if we need the outlets...something that would not be feasible with the window.... still can't answer without a drawing
Although this might seem to make sense to require plans, this was just a hypothetical, before we would have plans drawn up.... Does this encourage the use of the building dept? Did it waste both of our time?
But you are right, they do charge hardly anythying, but they also make so that many do not even bother with them.
That is the sad part, because the purpose of the building dept is to encourage safe building practices, and far too many just don't even bother with them here.
(I have posted in other threads about some of our other experiences....none bad, most slow, and one very quick action. All to our benefit, but I can see how many just look at the dept. as a bother....
As for the $$$. Most building dept.s charge to get copies of the filed plans. It costs, usually dollars per copy page....but here you can get the permit pulled information for free, but it only has the codes, applicant & dates, nothing about the work actually done. It is hard enough to track down work done a few years ago, impossible for 3 decades & multiple owners ago... I would gladly pay a fee to get the permitted plans. I have talked to a number of trade guys (that was a discussion topic at a remodel job today) who agree, to actually have the original plans when doing remodel work would be helpful.
Edited by - carey on 11/10/2007 19:18:09
RE: Permit /Building Questions - Carey - 11-10-2007
Kathy, there is even more to the buyer beware. Remember, a home inspector cannot check inside walls to make sure work was done correctly. We know of permitted work that was not (dangerously not, but 'permitted, inspected & finaled' that is all of the information you can get....no idea if the work you are looking at in a wall is the work that was P,I,F).) That is my one of my biggest amazements at this county.
RE: Permit /Building Questions - Kapohocat - 11-11-2007
quote:
...Most building dept.s charge to get copies of the filed plans. It costs, usually dollars per copy page....but here you can get the permit pulled information for free, but it only has the codes, applicant & dates, nothing about the work actually done. It is hard enough to track down work done a few years ago, impossible for 3 decades & multiple owners ago... I would gladly pay a fee to get the permitted plans. I have talked to a number of trade guys (that was a discussion topic at a remodel job today) who agree, to actually have the original plans when doing remodel work would be helpful.
I whole heartedly agree! I have needed some plans before - what I did to circumvent this issue was to see who drew them - we tracked it back that way and got a copy of the "unstamped sheets" - better than nothing...
As for the not having plans - the County bldgs up to this new one/remodel of old JC Penny's bldg - had been flooded out at least twice. When the old JC penny's mall flooded the roof caved in over the top of the "temp offices"...(about where the new bldg is going up now). Also in 1992 (??) there was a flood that ruined most of the info for Bldg and DOH..... so it maybe they are doign the best they can with what they have.
What I do like about Calif permitting is that you can take it in on a disk / submit online in some cases... But then again we don't have the traffic they have to get to the Bldg Dept...... Give a little / get a little ... huh?
Also - and here's a big thing for me - I have run into a old clerk in HD and she gave me info standing right there in line. Cant get that kinda service in Calif! ha ha