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+--- Thread: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii (/showthread.php?tid=5857)
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - dakine - 07-06-2009
quote:For Real? The constitution says that? I doubt it, but then I am far from being a constitutional scholar.
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
Seeing as how it’s a constitutional right to build your own home...
But I do agree the whole issue is sort of a state run protection racket. When I moved to Hawaii in the 70's I came with a general contractors license from Calif.. was told I had to work for 3 years under a contractor and have 3 already licensed contractors sign a document saying I was a good guy before I could take the test here. I thought that was nuts, bought a taro farm in Waipio and walked away from it all.
In the 80's I started up a cabinet shop serving contractors in the Honokaa and Waimea area. Did good for a while, built the cabs off site and delivered/installed them when the house was ready. Until a contractor came and asked if I would build for him too. Being way busy I pleaded my case and he went away. Then the bugger goes and turns one of the guys I was building for in on a charge of have unlicensed subs on the job (me). It was nuts. I walked from that too. Went and spent the next 20 yrs on the east rift documenting the eruption. At least there was no licensing involved!
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - ric - 07-06-2009
Everywhere we look, Unions are crapping on the rights of the rest of us.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - Rob Tucker - 07-06-2009
I'm willing to join the chorus. When I left Malibu and Santa Barbara the permits were costing $30,000 and taking 18 months to get. That reality (or unreality) is heading this way. Last set of plans I did for Maui required seventeen sets of drawings. Go figure.
I am in favor of reasonable protections for the home buyer. I am also in favor of assuming the owner builder to be competent to undertake reasonable home building. If you pay the fees (which are very low here by the way) the inspector can still come out and tell you if you did it right or wrong. I just don't think they are entitled to tell you you cannot attempt to do your own work.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - JWFITZ - 07-06-2009
Unions have nothing to do with it. Corruption does. There are corrupt unions for sure, and some less so. At this point, I'm pretty incapable of believing that there's any honest governance, as I'd actually need to witness it to be convinced. I'm a reasonable guy, I'd just need to see someone somewhere out there without conflicts of interest let alone hands in the cookie jar.
I agree safety has something to do with it, but as far as I'm concerned if someone wants to build a house that falls down, that's their business too. The permitted spec houses often seen are hardly safe. Good god. Hurricane ties--nice idea, of course--tied to a tinfoil roof--unsheathed--with piddly #12's holding down 3000 square feet of steel roof on 40 inch centers or some such? If we suck a real hurricane this county will look like it was run through a blender.
The lesson of history is regulation is a anti-competitive practice until it becomes so greedy and repressive that it finally creates a robust underground economy. Then all hell breaks loose. We're right there. The right thing to do is to boycott the whole practice.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - Rob Tucker - 07-06-2009
I will always trust the owner builder over the "professional" contractor. There's plenty of evidence to back that feeling up.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - David M - 07-06-2009
Add to the culprits, the attorneys. I was gonna say also politicians, but as most of them come via attorneys or union, that would be redundant. Attorneys use the "liability" weapon. Actually had an inspector slip up and admit that during one inspection. Seems that the county might believe that if the work is done by a licensed contractor as long as it meets code (passes inspection), the county cannot be held liable in future.
A couple years ago, I laid all this permitting, licensed contractor, etc crap on one of our state reps and challenged him as to how the state/county talk about affordable housing on the one hand while doing everything they could to make actual building more difficult and more expensive.
The solar squeeze has already begun - just ask anyone getting the required permits/inspections since changing the requirements.
I still chuckle when I think about my permitted shed with all it's simpson ties etc, sitting on concrete piers that sit on the ground surface. I guess the county just wanted to be sure that it slides down the face of Mauna Kea as a single unit.
As for taxes, county is on record claiming it will tax you permitted or not.
I've also heard it expressed that if it could get away with it, the county would not issue owner-builder permits at all - SCARY.
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - kimo wires - 07-06-2009
Whoa...
I'm right in the middle of it.
There's been so much crap built in the past that the county finally said enough.
Now you have to have 3 permits and 3 inspections before you can even pour a slab.
I'm jumping through the Hoops.
Play'n the game...
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - David M - 07-06-2009
Not really, that's just the smoke screen to try and make it palatable.
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - JWFITZ - 07-06-2009
Agreed.
RE: Unreasonable Construction Laws in Hawaii - jerry - 07-06-2009
I think maybe the problem is that no one wants to take responsibility and everyone is trying to protect themselves from lawsuits.
Imagine you build a stairway and it falls down, someone gets hurt. The hurt party sues you (the person who built the stairs), you sue the architect (who designed the stairs), the architect sues the County (who approved the construction)....
Most code items come up because something bad happened. The 2008 electric code, which Hawaii may adopt early next year, will require tamper-proof receptacles. An amazing number of children get hurt or killed with the current type. So the code is not totally irrational. But try to build a unique structure...
Today I asked the electrical inspector if the requirements for grounding a stand-alone solar power system were the same as a grid-tied system. His answer? Follow the engineers drawing. That is no answer, and every set of plans includes boilerplate language to the effect of "if there is a conflict, follow the code, not these drawings."
So I will figure it out myself and do the best I can.
Jerry