+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... (/showthread.php?tid=5935)
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - Sean - 07-24-2009
Thanks Bob,
That's pretty close to what I've read. The gist of what I've read seems to say that if the land is empty/unused and you own it, there should probably be a sign. If there's a gate/fence or some reason for someone to not think it's empty/unused you don't need a sign. I went to the state's website trying to get the text of hrs 708-800 & 708-815, but came away empty.
For what it's worth it seems that this conversation is happening elsewhere.
http://planetkauai.blogspot.com/2008/09/what-it-is-to-trespass-in-hawaii.html
Cheers,
Sean
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - MarkP - 07-24-2009
One of my neighbors is as far as I know born and raised here, of some "local" mix of nationalities, and he has about 10 signs arranged on about 10 feet of fence he set up at the corners of our property. He has another 10 or so on the gate at his driveway. He is a very stand-offish character. I know very little about him. I am a mainland transplant of 20 years. I have a chain across my driveway, one no trespassing sign on the chain and another on my storage container. I know that neither the chain or the signs will stop anyone, but I put them up for the reason Bob stated.
I like Puna but I know that it is different than where my parents live for example. Their neighborhood in central New York is composed of 1 acre ag zoned lots but the houses are all very nice and it would frankly be embarrassing to have all those signs on your property. After all, why would you if can pretty much leave your doors open anyway?
So that raises the question of why things are the way they are in these two separate neighborhoods. I think there are more different nationalities here in Hawaii. More to the point in Puna there are more different layers of nationality and different socio-economic strata. There is more overlap between differnig groups at this time in Puna. Was it always so and was there less crime/hostility when everyone was poorer? I assume that in the past everyone WAS poorer. Punaweb members are very strongly more affluent and are often mainland transplants, and the demographics of Puna in general are changing as more relatively well-off retirees or at least older people are moving in.
From stories I have heard I don't think of Puna as being more law abiding or less tense in the past. It has the reputation of being the wild west going back decades. Is it something about Hawaii? About Hawaiians? For the record, sad as it is I don't think of Native Hawaiians as being the defining social influence. Is it the legacy of the plantation era when different nationalities were recruited to work in the fields so that they wouldn't get along and get uppity with the management? Is it the obviously low educational expectations of most of the people I would describe as local?
Is there anywhere in Hawaii where people don't have "no trespassing" signs and where they leave their doors open with the expectation of not getting robbed? I would expect the answer is yes in both new affluent gated communities and old established communities where residents may even be poor. Kula, Makawao, Haiku, Hawi, Na'alehu, Lanai, Hanalei all seem like examples of the latter or at least they were. I don't recall seeing the ridiculous numbers of signs there that you find in Puna. I think Puna is worse than most of the rest of the state in this regard. Am I correct, and if so why would that be?
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - Devany - 07-24-2009
Mark,
You asked, "Is there anywhere in Hawaii where people don't have "no trespassing" signs and where they leave their doors open with the expectation of not getting robbed? I would expect the answer is yes in both new affluent gated communities and old established communities where residents may even be poor. Kula, Makawao, Haiku, Hawi, Na'alehu, Lanai, Hanalei all seem like examples of the latter or at least they were. I don't recall seeing the ridiculous numbers of signs there that you find in Puna. I think Puna is worse than most of the rest of the state in this regard. Am I correct, and if so why would that be?":
Most certainly there are areas like that. We live in one and I have been to many others along the Hamakua Coast. Certainly some people lock doors when they leave the house, but not everyone. I don't know anyone that locks them if they are home. There are no signs anywhere in our neighborhood. I have not seen such signs anywhere in Hilo that I can remember, or even in many areas in the South or North Hilo Districts. I think it might be more common in areas where there has been crime, where there are absentee owners or where people live in isolation.
I would dare anyone to go back to Carey's house and pick "oranges" in the middle of the night... like Francine says, let them take a bite first! LOL. And they get a shower to boot!
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com
www.eastbaypotters.blogspot.com
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - kani-lehua - 07-24-2009
agreed!
[
]"chaos reigns within.
reflect, repent and reboot.
order shall return."
microsoft error message with haiku poetry
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - Carey - 07-24-2009
Ahhh, But the sour fruit is hidden, and the oh so yummy navel oranges and honey sweet tangerines are right near the fence... it is temptation, agreed! Luckily we do have more than enough, & share (in fact there was a basket full of fruit at our gate- less than 100 ft away - when the guy climbed up into the tree), just didn't fancy the guy IN the tree (I could only picture him falling & blaming my tree & my pruning!)
If only the owners of long ago had planted the Bilimi & the sour oranges up at the fence line, we won't have as much to worry about... not that I worry much about it!
We did give branches of our Euphorbia lactea (read mean nasty thorny plant that likes snaring people) to a friend in HPP that was having problems with uninvited people & pigs in her yard.... they have filled into a very nice thorny hedge.... she hasn't had any uninviteds since.... I don't like the plant & will not use it as such, because it snares me anytime I go any where near it.... my goal is to remove it from our yard, but it isn't easy to evict...
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - Kelena - 07-24-2009
You can't trespass on private property. The sign, as Bob points out (I love that guy), puts you on notice and makes it difficult to say "I didn't know it was private property". I don't think a sign is necessary but it may be advisable if there is some ambiguity about the property. For example, a vacant lot next to 400 acres of Shipman land that happens to be a great fishing spot might need a "no trespassing" sign (Shipman's are regarded as quasi-governmental!). An even stronger case could be made for private land that you know is being accessed by people without permission to access it. That will make it easier when they sue you for cutting their leg on your lava as they bait their hook. Then you say, "You knew you had no right to be where you were." They say "No, I thought it was state land." Then you ask if they saw the "No trespassing" signs, picture of same ready to go.
Required though? I wouldn't think so. Those signs are not necessary on a vacant one acre on 14th near Maku'u. They may be advisable on a vacant lot with lots of lumber, a shipping container and three sawhorses.
I absolutely cannot believe that you remember or have ever even heard that song, Sean!
If anyone touches Carey's delicious low-hanging fruit, I will have Tom Lackey "relocate" them.
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - Brooklynjoe - 08-07-2009
My favorite sign was on a cyclone fence at the foot of a great lawn on Kauai: "My Doberman can make it from the house to this fence in 4 seconds. Can you?"
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - MntnViewBlue - 08-11-2009
This year I worked the US Census and covered the area from Glenwood
Rd. to 130 to Pahoa. During the required training we were frequently reminded that Puna is the Wild West, we were representatives of the Government, and historically Puna residents do not like "Government People". Every area I was sent into people would tell me to "be very careful, it's dangerous in there..."
Well, my actual experience couldn't have been further from others expectations. In every single development I met nothing but friendly, funny, open, interesting people. Locals and transplants alike. I got tours of homes and gardens. I was given fruit from trees and cuttings from plants. I heard stories of the history of Puna, and stories of how transplants ended up here. I met memorable eccentrics and made new friends. Couldn't believe I was actually getting paid to have such fun.
Now, with that said, I'll tell you that upwards of 90% of the houses had gates, Kapu, No Tresspassing, and/or Beware of Dog signs. A few even had cameras. All the people I spoke with universally told me thier reasons for such were for security and deterrance. With the exception of two people, everyone said they personally had not had any trouble, but they know of others who had. So, my personal opinion is it's mostly perception. Puna has a bad rap, but it's truly not any worse (and mostly a whole lot better) than any where else. It's just part of the landscape now, but it dosen't have to become part of our culture.
The Aloha spirit is alive and thriving in Puna.
Aloha,
Carrie
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - mikewj - 08-12-2009
MtnviewBlue: According to the US Government Census website, the official census is every ten years, the next one taking place in MARCH 2010. What kind of census, and for whom, were you working on in 2009? I understand that Hawaii is different, and I love that, but as far as I know it is still part of the US and follows the same Federal rules as the rest of the country.
RE: Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs... - PaulW - 08-12-2009
Seems it was some sort of pre-census to determine locations of addresses etc.