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+--- Thread: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President (/showthread.php?tid=7006)
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - Daniel - 03-13-2010
I hope Ted isn't offended by parts of his "confidential letter" being made pubic. He is a good man and deserves to be allowed his privacy.
Daniel R Diamond
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - DanielP - 03-14-2010
Just a thought,
Perhaps a draft proposal as a petition, signed by members, as to policy change regarding meeting format to give a better voice to the membership.
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - JoAnne Backman - 03-14-2010
The letter excerpts are not from a confidential letter. They are from a letter addressed to me and received in 2007.
HPP does not have a forum for open communications between the board and the members, or from member to member. The president and vice president chose to air their responses to the membership meeting owner input on a closed platform, where people who had not attended the meeting would get only their one sided version. My intention in using this forum is to bring in to the light that which is relevant and has not been stated by those two board officers and to encourage owners to become informed and become involved.
Because only a handful of owners show up and state their concerns, the controlling members of the board assume those are the only unhappy people and label them as mal-contents or trouble makers. To dispel that wrong thinking, owners need to get involved, come to the board and membership meetings and speak up.
As observed, I am a newbie and I appreciate the constructive advice on protocol. Thank you.
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - critterlover - 03-14-2010
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol08_Ch0401-0429/HRS0421J/HRS_0421J-.HTM
The above link takes you to the 'Planned Community Association' section of the Hawaii Revised Statutes which address, among other entities, home owners associations in Hawaii. It is not the end all be all to the governing process but sets out the parameters that apply where the By Laws, Articles, etc, of an individual entity do not state otherwise, for instance, in the 'proxy' section, if yours does not allow proxy vote then your governing docs carry the day.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol08_Ch0401-0429/HRS0421J/HRS_0421J-0005.htm
This link takes you to the section of this area that outlines how Boards, Committees and Sub-Committees should view comments from non Board members.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol08_Ch0401-0429/HRS0414D/HRS_0414D-0101.HTM
This section of the Hawaii Revised Statutes actually pertains to 'Corporations' under which a non profit may fall. This particular section begins the portion that lays out how a corporation will conduct their 'Members' meetings. There are several sub sections so please click through the 'next' options to read them.
http://www.robertsrules.com/
As you will note in the HRS 421J-6 section, Robert's Rules of Order is designated as the Rule of Order standard by which a meeting is supposed to be conducted.
Sometimes, it is just a matter of everyone understanding the mechanism in conducting a meeting that makes the difference. A 'point of order' can be called when there is a breach of rules ... the person making the motion should be prepared to explain why they called it [what rule is breached]. Thereafter, the 'Chair' should acknowledge the point of order, or, they should rule against it stating their rationale for doing so. An appeal to that ruling can be made but requires 2 people; One person to call for an appeal and the other to second. It gets tedious. Sometimes, if the Chair is sensitive to the motion the Chair may glean there is a need for further elucidation in order for folks to understand. If someone does not wish to call a 'point of order' they may call for a 'point of information' if it is not about a parliamentary rule. Or, if you are not sure which but sense there is an irregularity you can simply make a parliamentary inquiry. If you have a copy of Robert's Rules of Order please refer to the sections that cover these motions. Having a skeleton structure of order, like Robert's, provides for a meeting where the 'power' structure is not the Board or the Members, but the Rules of Order.
I am not a parliamentarian. But, I know how much more efficient and effective a meeting can be when conducted where the Rules of Order [HRS, By Laws, RONR] are in place and followed. If you do not know them, any of them, please do your research, become informed. Besides voting for individuals who you believe to be qualified, vetting them beforehand to determine their familiarity with your governing documents, the State Statutes and Roberts' should eventually create a meeting environment more conducive for the majority.
My final thought: Each person who serves as a director on any board; each person who serves on any committee and any member who cares enough to attend a meeting should be lauded for their civic and community spirit. It is a thankless task for each when looking for external accolades but can be a most personally rewarding feeling internally when you can look back at any situation and know you were part of the process. Special Interests are always going to be around but can be mitigated by a board, a committee and a community who is fully informed. Attending meetings and regularly reviewing Minutes are two ways to reach that goal of being informed.
I made this post absent a 'side' in this discussion. Matters are always difficult trying to manage with so many different opinions from those who are directly relevant to the group without a nod or opinion one way or the other from outsiders. I contemplated whether to share this at all for fear it may offend those who may be conscientiously following all rules. It is not my goal to offend anyone. Please accept my apology if that is how this is taken. May we all find peace in our individual neighborhoods and communities.
“A penny saved is a government oversight.”
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - mella l - 03-14-2010
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
It's just feedback, mdd. If I were to go grammar police here it would be a lot more frequent and ugly. Plus I'd have to correct myself. ;-) I was just lightly saying I thought it meant Obama ... to me, no one in HPP is The President. LOL Were you traumatized by an English teacher and now the slightest ref to reading comprehension makes you mad?
I am not sure what the point is JoAnne. Is it to show the escalation of tensions? I mean, why is it coming to a public forum, to gather support? Has anyone in this forum said anything critical to you about this matter? Is it that you expect everyone to be abreast of the situation, so no detailed explanation is needed?
LOL I thought the same thing Kathy, and then when I realized what was being discussed and shared I wondered why it wasn't on the politics board. But hey I'm just a visitor so that's my only comment and yes my grammar has seen much better days!
mella l
Paris London New York PUNA
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - Ed Smay - 03-15-2010
Mella, I agree with you.
"From knowledge comes understanding"
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - DanielP - 03-15-2010
Interesting that so few from HPP have commented. Except for the attitude thing and the meeting procedures, the other items seem pretty picayunish.
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - JerryCarr - 03-15-2010
The real problem here is apathy and lack of participation, so DanielP's observation about how few have commented is astute. If more people paid attention to what was going on and looked after their own interests effectively, a lot of this hu-hu could be avoided.
I would venture to guess that most HPPOA members would be hard pressed to tell you who their Board representative is. The Board of Directors is elected, but many (and sometimes most) property owners do not bother to vote. In some cases there is only one candidate running in a district. Sometimes the Board has to appoint a person from outside a district because no one will step forward to serve. Due to vacancies from resignations and the regular rotation of district elections, I believe that six of nine Board positions are on the ballot this Spring. The deadline to file for these positions is this Friday, the 19th. You may call the HPPOA office at 966-4500 for details.
Not all the issues causing dissent have been listed here, and some of them are not picayunish. HPPOA has de facto taxing power through its road assessments, and the power to foreclose for non-payment. HPPOA has $12 million in bonded indebtedness. These are serious powers and obligations. I attend about 90% of the Board meetings and serve on two Board committees, and I can tell everyone that a very tiny minority of the stakeholders bother to find out what is going on and participate on any level whatsoever. There are some who will say, "Oh it's just a few people griping about petty issues." Just remember that these folks for the most part are sincere people who pay attention, do more than their part, and care about how things are done.
The HPPOA Board of Directors meets this Wednesday (March 17th) evening at 6 p.m. in the Activity Center Library. It would be nice to have to move the meeting out into the main hall of the Center because so many people show up.
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - Kelena - 03-15-2010
Many HPPOA members are absentee. Perhaps there should be some method for "Skyping" them in. And I think getting rid of the paper Conch was a false economy.
RE: Rebuttal: HPP Comments from the President - Ken McGilvray - 03-15-2010
This is an email I sent to HPPOA President Bob Rainie on March 14, 2010, regarding his comments at the General Meeting on Feb 28, 2010
Dear Bob,
The following may help you understand the facts as they should have been stated in your Response to Member Input on the web site after the last HPPOA General Meeting, February 28, 2010.
Fact 1. Regarding the Christmas Party funds. There has been an account (5875) for employee relations in the budget for many years. This is a road account, and the budget was $700.00 for the year 2009-2010, which more than doubled the previous two years amount. The expenditure of $1,572.77, for the Christmas party was way over the annual amount budgeted. Moving this amount from roads to non roads does not mitigate the expenditure. Employee relations was set up in the road account, because that's where we have most of the employees. It's interesting that you referred to this as "employee welfare" and not employee relations. Is this a new welfare program you have for the employees?
Fact 2. Regarding the Fidelity Bond for the General Manager. If you had read the contract for the General Manager. who is an Independent Contractor , it called for an Errors and Omissions Bond in the amount of 1 million dollars, to be paid for by the Independent Contractor. This was done for two reasons, first the contractor is independent, second, it was done to save the Association money. Have copies of the original contract and/or any amended contract been forwarded to the trustee of the construction bonds (UBC)?
Fact 3. Was Ted Hong an attorney for the Board or for the entire Association? If it was for the Association then the entire Association has the right to know why he resigned. As the former Treasurer of HPPOA, I had the opportunity to work closely with Mr. Hong, and always found him to be extremely honest, efficient, and accurate in his dealings with the Association. I also found him to be very competent in his handling of liens and foreclosures, contrary to what you stated.
Fact 4. It was stated the SEE Hawaii employees will cost the Association about $6,000.00, which I believe to be incorrect. The correct total will be closer to $24,000.00. I am basing this on one employee costing about an additional $3,100.00 annually, times at least 8 employees.
Fact 5. There is no "Aloha Group" as you erroneously stated in your Presidents Comments page on the HPPOA web site. These were all individuals who had many common concerns. There is nothing unethical about a group of citizens being concerned for the proper use of their road fees. You accused JoAnne Backman of harassment, but your statement about me being unethical could be construed as libelous toward me.
Fact 6. Your attempt to adjourn the last HPPOA General meeting without allowing owner input, was reprehensible. The agenda called for owner input, and the very thought that you attempted to shut this down. shows that you have little concern for anything the owners have to say in regard to the By-laws and Policies of Hawaiian Paradise Park.
You might find you have less confrontation from the owners at the General Meetings, if you would learn to follow the policies, by-laws, and contracts of the organization.
Ken McGilvray