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+--- Thread: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. (/showthread.php?tid=7137)
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - Rob Tucker - 04-05-2010
It would be very interesting to find an answer to Daniel's question:
"Who paid these guys to come and lobby against what Hawaii voters have asked for?"
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - Bob Orts - 04-05-2010
No State or County government funds were expended for those CA people to come and lobby, it was funded by private organizations. As for what government funds were expended for local law enforcement to also lobby, that’s something any resident can ask for an answer.
The bottom line is, until such time as the medical marijuana issue can be separated and dealt with as a pure and only medical marijuana issue, there will always be organized opposition to it. As an example just look at what just happened. You have an initiative to deal with the dispensing of medical marijuana to Hawaii's medical marijuana cardholders. But that wasn't the only issue. It was also riding with a proposal to decriminalize small amounts for recreational use.
I bet had the medical marijuana dispensary issue been the sole and only issue facing legislators, it would have proceeded. But, recreational use was riding the coat tails and caused the demise of the initiative.
Medical marijuana has the majority of supporters, but so long as recreational users are using medical marijuana as a scam to get what they want, you have to expect what happened to happen. When a proposal for medical marijuana is presented that clearly and solely is for legitimate medical use, supporters will be there. If you use medical marijuana as a smoke screen for recreational use, you will be fighting this for decades to come.
Legitimate medical marijuana users need to stand up and say enough of using us for you sham attempts at getting marijuana for recreational use under the guise of medical, and they need to propose an initiative that meets only their legitimate use.
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - peregrine - 04-05-2010
Thank you, Mr.Orts, for stating so well the point I had hoped to make.
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - DanielP - 04-05-2010
I don't disagree, but the abuse by the recreational users is a feeble excuse to withold legitimate medical access.
It was my understanding that there were two separate measures. The first for dispensaries and the second for small amounts for recreational use. They were not linked together, only one followed the other on the agenda. One could have passed and the other not.
The LA folks were there on the dispensary issue.
So the politicians will punish the people who need medical access because of those who would abuse that system, rather than facilitating the medical need and addressing the abuse as criminal. Now there is some sophisticated thinking.
It is more important for the medical needs be facilitated than for the abuse to be avoided.
Ed. sp.
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - DanielP - 04-05-2010
Bob, you wrote:
"Legitimate medical marijuana users need to stand up and say enough of using us for you sham attempts at getting marijuana for recreational use under the guise of medical, and they need to propose an initiative that meets only their legitimate use."
Alot of them cannot even get out of bed, let alone stand up.
The trouble is that most people don't understand how very sick these folks are. They are not out in public, they are in bed. If you saw your loved one vomit repeatedly, for hours a day, week after week, month after month, with no end in sight, how would you feel?
And that is exactly the initiative that the voters passed. The patients can't do anything about those who would abuse the law. It just seems absurd to me that the legislators choose to ignore the vote of the people. What cowards.
Sorry for the rant, Dan
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - Bob Orts - 04-06-2010
Dan, you’re preaching to the choir. Every thing your saying I understand. What is being said is the unfortunate degree which recreational users have bastardized the medical marijuana issue has made it near impossible to separate the two. Many good initiatives on medical marijuana have been corrupted by recreational users that even some involved in the legitimate medical marijuana issue have had to step back.
Let me give you an example of an issue from a few years ago. A state was considering how best to serve the need of medical marijuana users. It was legal for them to posses and use small quantities that were prescribed by a doctor, but, there was no method for them to obtain marijuana legally.
The state set up an informal panel to come up with a solution. The panel's task was to suggest a way for patients to legally obtain medical marijuana without allowing recreational users to circumvent the system.
After discussing the issue with patients, doctors, and even law enforcement, a proposal was developed. The state knew full well they were bucking federal law, but they felt if they were only addressing the legitimate medical marijuana needs of patients, the feds most likely wouldn't come down on the program. They also knew it was not the perfect solution, but it was by far better than what was available to patients.
The plan was simple, under the control and oversight of the health and police, seized marijuana would be used for medical purposes. It would be tested, processed, and packaged under the strict oversight of health and police. Although this put those agencies at odds with federal laws, they were willing to do it.
Next was that patients would be required to register with the health dept and be issued a patient ID card. The card required that the patient’s medical condition and clinical assessment for needing marijuana be submitted to a panel of doctors who would approve or deny the request. Additionally, prescriptions for medical marijuana would need to be submitted to the health dept who would arrange for the patient to be supplied with their medication.
The crux of the plan was that there are many legitimate drugs that are available that do not cure, arrest, or delay the illness, they are purely for comfort. All those drugs have been abused illegally (some legally) yet they are still allowed to be prescribed, administered and use. So should marijuana if a licensed doctor believes it’s in the best interest of the patient.
The backroom deal was that this was going to be so tightly controlled that only legitimate patients would be getting state sponsored marijuana. It did mean some patients and doctors may have delays in getting it, and others may have to jump through some additional hoops, but overall, everyone agreed that this is an experiment worth considering because the safeguards were there to keep it out of the hand of recreational or questionable users.
The plan died in discussion and was never implemented. The first reaction outside those involved was that government has no business getting into the marijuana business. Local growers should have a part of this and they should be allowed to grown marijuana if they say it’s for medical purposes. The second issue was although the vast majority of medical doctors who routinely deal with illnesses where medical marijuana is suited were in favor of it; major shadow medical practitioners indicated that they shouldn’t have to justify prescribing medical marijuana. They and only they should have the right to prescribe to whom ever they feel needed it for whatever reason. Another group of concern was those vocal medical marijuana users who have neither doctor’s prescriptions nor recognized medical conditions but felt medical marijuana should be available if the patient felt it was helpful. And the biggest threat was from the marijuana legalization forces for all the known reasons.
Ironically, many of the true medical marijuana users who were consulted on the project openly stated that only a small number of medical marijuana users are legitimate. Most they said many just want to get high and play the “medical” card. Officially, medical marijuana is still legal for use by a registered patient, but there is no state sponsored program to supply the legitimate patients with the product.
Now let me ask you, if such a similar program was proposed for Hawaii, and the law makers and government was willing to go along with it, IF, all the same safeguards were in place, what do you think the response would be from the general medical marijuana patients, from the general medical marijuana supporters, and from marijuana law reformers?
Honestly, do you think the needs of legitimate medical marijuana patients will be paramount in the minds of those groups?
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - Beachboy - 04-06-2010
whether true or not. That plan would have met full on opposition to that program being implemented. First off never mind medical or recreational. The "Knuckle draggers on the right" are running out of options. Implenting this plan using seized cannabis thru bust just gives the the "knuckle draggers", all the more reason to fly their "ghetto birds" in our airspace weekly, because that's what would happen. The Feds are constantly portraying these two doctors on this island as evil for handing out over 50% of the state's medical cannabis card. I've even heard some officials go as far as to call what these two doctors are doing as criminal. Myself, I view them not as criminals or frauds but as heros. Heros because they stood up to the feds and basically said "FU"! Besides, how is a panel of doctors gonna do a better job determining my ailment, than a single doctor? These my friends are just more stalling tactics of the right.
As for who paid for these people to come here,...I don;t know? But I expect it is got something to do with the "Church & the Right, who oppose co-ops, collectives, and dispensaries. I mean who else would do this against the will of the people?
Are we really gonna have to wait a year to try again? Reason I ask I saw this yesterday online:
Don't let bill SB2141 die! Representative Ryan Yamane, Chair of the House Committee on Health, still has not agreed to hear SB2141, a bill which would make important updates to Hawaii's current medical marijuana program.
Please call (808)586-6150 and ask Representative Yamane to "hear SB2141 or waive it". If he chooses to waive the bill, it would be automatically heard by the Committee on Public Safety and then the Committee on Judiciary. Unless the bill starts moving, it will die and these important changes to policy for Hawaii's medical marijuana patients could be delayed for yet another ten years.
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Let's get together and over grow the government!!!!
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - Beachboy - 04-06-2010
one other thing. I'm totally against the idea of opening up dispensaries and taxing their sales. I mean why should sick people being paying tax on their meds? To me that really doesn't make sense at all!
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Let's get together and over grow the government!!!!
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - 808blogger - 04-06-2010
LOL
its called a GENERAL EXCISE TAX, you already pay GET for your meds, and your DR. etc. (if you live in hawaii)
quote:
Originally posted by Beachboy
one other thing. I'm totally against the idea of opening up dispensaries and taxing their sales. I mean why should sick people being paying tax on their meds? To me that really doesn't make sense at all!
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Let's get together and over grow the government!!!!
RE: I awoke this morning seeing this first in Hono.. - mdd7000 - 04-06-2010
As long as people are allowed to get a medical marijuana card with no real, documented illness, as long as they pay the doctor's fee, the whole thing will continue to be known as one big scam and have no credibility. Anyone who truly believes in the medical value should work tirelessly to rid the system of the scammers who are abusing it for recreational use.